Why are there no ETF Sparplans (ETF savings plans) in Switzerland?

I have something a bit similar. I have a UBS account for both my children. I have a direct debit, and the fund buys units each month in

UBS (CH) Investment Fund -Equities Global Passive W - TER 0.24&

I set it up a few years ago, and it does make me worry that its with UBS as they always seem the worst for these kinds of things.

But it seems to work fine, and I cant see many alternatives to switch.

Keep in mind that this fund is MSCI World ex Switzerland. You could add the UBS (CH) Investment Fund - Equities Switzerland with 0.18% TER I think do get the whole exposure.

What’s the actual cost of the Global Passive fund? (since it’s a fund of fund, I tend not to trust the stated TER)

I would say it’s not interesting enough for the banks, especially if no-one else offers it, they’d only be cannibalizing their more expensive offerings.
Maybe one day when a disruptor (Viac-style) comes and grows big enough.

I seem to remember looking at that Swissquote offer at the time, but fees were not attractive enough.

Just today I got a nice brochure in the post from Postfinance - one product they were selling - Fondssparplan - exactly what you want… but…
https://www.postfinance.ch/de/privat/produkte/anlegen/selbststaendig-investieren/fondssparplan.html
1% when buying.
0.15% p.a.
9000 Fonds to choose from, but VWRL ain’t one.
The first 20 all looked very special (see below, TER>>0.5% that kind of ETF), not saying there isn’t a decent ETF in those 9000 though, but wouldn’t bet on it.

AB SICAV I - International Health Care Portfolio
Aberdeen Standard - World Resources Equity Fund
Allianz Euro Rentenfonds
and so on

(Edit/correction after @Guillaume_GVA 's comment “The plan doesn’t offer ETF but a selection of mutual funds”)

1% when buying isn’t even that bad. If you save 2k/month, that’s 20 CHF per month. The 0.15% yearly fee will make a bigger difference longterm.

The plan doesn’t offer ETF but a selection of mutual funds (within a pool of 9’000 mutual funds available to CH investors). Thus the higher TER and subscription fee of 1%.

The fee structure by Postfinance is OK. Subscription fee on mutual funds can go up to 5% with redemption fees of 1 or 2%.

Let’s not forget the Swiss stamp tax at the top.

Ah ok, by “funds” I also included E.T. Funds in my head, but you’re probably right, it’s those kind of mutual funds. Wow, 9000 mutual funds… there’s a mutual fund for everything it seems.
Their search function was sh*ty on my mobile, so I gave up looking for a fund I might recognise.
Swiss Stamp Tax is a pittance compared to all the other fees, and become due for every Swiss broker though.

Thank you but all of these miss the mark I’ve explained in my opening post. These are all robo-advisors or banks with no DIY choice of ETFs and high management fees (Yova for example charges 1.2 % on top of TER).

Thank you all for contributing! So my conclusion is that there are really no ETF Sparplans in Switzerland and that I should just start an ETF Sparplan in Germany. Is that your last word? :slight_smile:

Yes. Same conclusion as the last time we discussed it.

https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/automatic-etf-buying-from-switzerland/

TLDR;

IB offers a portfolio rebalancer. i never dared touching it - but it might turn IB into yourrobo advisor. hm should make a paper account to check this out…

next level: make you own logic and execute with IB API via a raspberryor such…

That just creates the correct trades for you, but if you have many positions that can get a bit expensive.

Maybe the Pies at Trading212 would work.

So what did you do in the end? I have the same problem of not wanting to be tempted to become active investor (gambler) so I avoid the brokers and news. Like you said in the other topic, I just want to turn on the cruise control and enjoy the ride with one single World ETF for the next 20+ years.

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Before I answer some context:

FIRE is not my goal. I was trying to find a way to put money aside and invest that fits my needs.

Also I have a strong need for keeping separate piggy banks for different goals. It’s the way I’m wired. And I have a compulsion to try out stuff.

If you want to FIRE, this is not for you.

I went with Avadis for the largest part of my regular savings. It’s really set and forget and I don’t even have an online access. Best for a good night’s sleep and it’s what I need despite the higher fees. Was also easy to explain to my wife. We opened two funds.

For a planned larger sum that I will need in 5-10 years, I went with monthly contributions to Selma. Very broad diversification, low volatility. (DM for Selma referral code.) Since the target amount is in the five figures, I can live with the higher fees. Selma was the second step on my investment journey and I think it’s great to get people to start investing. Several of my friends have started there thanks to me.

The solutions above have the advantage that you can attach a nice PDF to your tax declaration. No need to worry about how to declare dividends and buying and selling dates.

Whatever I don’t spend I dump into VWRL on DeGiro, manually. I’ve found VT on eToro and consider switching there because it’s cheaper. Knowing myself I’ll probably keep both.

Happy to answer other questions.

Well, if you have to pull the trigger yourself, it’s about as “robo-advised” as Tesla’s cars are self-driving, isn’t it?

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I must admit I’m intrigued as to why wouldn’t this be your goal? I thought we all want to be financially independent as soon as possible? Unless what you mean is that you have employed some other (better!) means to gain FIRE instead of saving in an ETF Sparplan… In that case I want to hear about it :slight_smile:

In my case FIRE is the goal and I want to achieve it with a cheap ETF Sparplan. I want to avoid any management fees with Avadis, Selma etc. because their 0.50 % yearly fee takes away tens of thousands from my returns in the long run. I mean they invest my money in those same World ETFs that I want to invest in so why pay them the fee to do what I already can do myself with the help of a free (0.00% fee) ETF Sparplan in Germany?

I know you said your goal is not FIRE and that you can live with this fee for the next 5-10 years but still it doesn’t make sense to me to leave money on the ground when you have other options which will bring you better returns, even if it’s only couple of thousands, and require no input from your side as well…

I suppose the goal of all of us is the FI part, but not necessarily also full RE. :slight_smile:
“full” as in never receive any more income for any type of work.

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Yes, sure. Retire from the rat race but not from doing stuff you like and get paid for it.

@Rexleonis, I just found a link to “Passiv” from IBKR website which sounds like it could do the trick. I am not clear if it would be necessary to take the premium plan for USD 99/year. I will try to check it out later

Does your German account have any fees? I have an online broker account in UK that offers commission free regular investing on day x of each month but with fixed account fee GBP 9.99 per month

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Interactive Brokers already supports portfolio rebalancing in TWS. Hopefully they will add the same functionality in their web portal at some point.

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