Why are there no ETF Sparplans (ETF savings plans) in Switzerland?

Before I answer some context:

FIRE is not my goal. I was trying to find a way to put money aside and invest that fits my needs.

Also I have a strong need for keeping separate piggy banks for different goals. It’s the way I’m wired. And I have a compulsion to try out stuff.

If you want to FIRE, this is not for you.

I went with Avadis for the largest part of my regular savings. It’s really set and forget and I don’t even have an online access. Best for a good night’s sleep and it’s what I need despite the higher fees. Was also easy to explain to my wife. We opened two funds.

For a planned larger sum that I will need in 5-10 years, I went with monthly contributions to Selma. Very broad diversification, low volatility. (DM for Selma referral code.) Since the target amount is in the five figures, I can live with the higher fees. Selma was the second step on my investment journey and I think it’s great to get people to start investing. Several of my friends have started there thanks to me.

The solutions above have the advantage that you can attach a nice PDF to your tax declaration. No need to worry about how to declare dividends and buying and selling dates.

Whatever I don’t spend I dump into VWRL on DeGiro, manually. I’ve found VT on eToro and consider switching there because it’s cheaper. Knowing myself I’ll probably keep both.

Happy to answer other questions.

Well, if you have to pull the trigger yourself, it’s about as “robo-advised” as Tesla’s cars are self-driving, isn’t it?

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I must admit I’m intrigued as to why wouldn’t this be your goal? I thought we all want to be financially independent as soon as possible? Unless what you mean is that you have employed some other (better!) means to gain FIRE instead of saving in an ETF Sparplan… In that case I want to hear about it :slight_smile:

In my case FIRE is the goal and I want to achieve it with a cheap ETF Sparplan. I want to avoid any management fees with Avadis, Selma etc. because their 0.50 % yearly fee takes away tens of thousands from my returns in the long run. I mean they invest my money in those same World ETFs that I want to invest in so why pay them the fee to do what I already can do myself with the help of a free (0.00% fee) ETF Sparplan in Germany?

I know you said your goal is not FIRE and that you can live with this fee for the next 5-10 years but still it doesn’t make sense to me to leave money on the ground when you have other options which will bring you better returns, even if it’s only couple of thousands, and require no input from your side as well…

I suppose the goal of all of us is the FI part, but not necessarily also full RE. :slight_smile:
“full” as in never receive any more income for any type of work.

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Yes, sure. Retire from the rat race but not from doing stuff you like and get paid for it.

@Rexleonis, I just found a link to “Passiv” from IBKR website which sounds like it could do the trick. I am not clear if it would be necessary to take the premium plan for USD 99/year. I will try to check it out later

Does your German account have any fees? I have an online broker account in UK that offers commission free regular investing on day x of each month but with fixed account fee GBP 9.99 per month

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Interactive Brokers already supports portfolio rebalancing in TWS. Hopefully they will add the same functionality in their web portal at some point.

Can you or somebody else please explain in layman terms what does that mean and how could it solve my issue?

Here is a online review of Passiv. It looks a lot more user friendly than Interactive Brokers TWS solution

It will take 24 hours for my connection to Interactive brokers to be approved so not yet able to say if it works reliably

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I confirm this worked for me. It sent me an email when cash landed in my Interactive Brokers account and told me which trades to place, for free (no additional cost vs usual IB trade fees). So not fully automated but good enough to force me to act.

Once you set up an account (video above) here are the steps that need to be followed:

  1. Set up a recurring deposit in IB and in your online bank to fund your IB account regularly
  2. Go to Passiv’s Settings and ensure cash alerts are enabled so they notify you when you have cash available to invest
  3. Get an email, login and follow the calculated trades. (I did not test the following but if you want to pay a premium plan USD 99 /yr Passiv will place the calculated trades directly with One-Click Trades)

Step 1 is probably the most complex for anyone not familiar with IB. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable in IT can comment on the security aspects

It does not work for Mutual Funds and it did not let me enter a negative cash position (margin loan)

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When I was young and poor, I used VZ.
It was very good, but my wealth grew, and the 55bps eventually became too much.

You can build your own strategy from this selection of trackers, that includes Vanguard, iShares, Xtrackers, etc. Then you just wire money in, and they do automatic investing and rebalancing.

https://www.vermoegenszentrum.ch/dam/jcr:d8c983c0-4cbd-4ad3-9d9f-f894bc09cfb4/processus%20de%20sélection%20et%20liste%20de%20titres.pdf

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Sorry, is this automatic investing or manual?

I would say semi automated, they don’t fully automate the trades for security reasons. I tried to describe above. Let me know if I can clarify something

The problem is they charge 0,55 % “service fee” which is catastrophic to the future gains.

So I have to login every month to make the trade?

What happens if I don’t login for months? Will investments in my chosen ETF still be executed every month?

You will receive an email from Passiv every time money arrives in your IB account via the standing order you can set up
If you pay the Passiv premium plan usd 99 per year you click the link in your email to log into Passiv, click “place trade” and you are done.

Perhaps it is not as good as the options available if you were in Germany but for me this is less hassle than transferring to a German bank as it avoids international transfers and it is the best solution I am aware of

If you don’t want to pay USD 99/yr Passiv still calculates the trades to rebalance your account for free, just you don’t have the “place trade” button. So you have to log into IB and place the trades. By default the Passiv account is set to “buy only” so it rebalances without incurring trading fees to sell ETFs

It is 99 CAD per year. If you are part of the https://community.rationalreminder.ca community, you can get the premium plan for 50% off for life until the 16. of April.

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Does anyone know what the advanced currency handling mean for Passiv?

(does it not work for multi currency without it?)

Even better. So less than 40chf per year with the discount ( 3.30 chf per month)

Thank you very much for your time but this is exactly what I don’t want and the whole reason I opened this topic; I want it to be fully automatic and I also need/want no rebalancing.

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