Thanks, but I got triggered because I don’t like to associate <150k with regular job. I do agree with everything else you said. I’m not a leanFIRE guy or something else, but I just thought it’s better to not associate the words “regular job” with <150k. Mathematically correct, but it sounds still different.
@IdleThought yes. I know how math works. thanks. 
Sorry that I am going off topic.
Early Retirement Extreme (the book).
Thanks for your reply @flenker. I’m very familiar with Jacob’s book. I would be interested in a breakdown of your expenses to see how this number would work in Switzerland.
my original plan was to have 100kCHF @ 4%SWR, hence 2.5M. But as time went by i fount to have a good life on much less. My current approach is to collect long-term data on my expenses to make a good decision later.
I haven’t quite worked out the numbers yet : )
But something like 200k → 8k income per year.
Yearly costs:
3k on health insurance.
100 on liability insurance.
Share a cheap 1 Bedroom appartment somewhere in the suburbs → 5k per year.
Hmm, maybe I need another 100k to generate another 4k income to cover food and incidental costs. So 300k total?
I think that is overly aggressive – what about your SO, kids, entertainment, travel, etc?
So you didn’t really think it through, just try to impress us with a low number? You will also need to pay at least 512 for AHV.
I recommend reading the book I mentioned.
Ok what else am I missing? With 300k all the costs I mentioned are covered.
I like the way you think, but I’m not sure it will work this way. I haven’t read that book though.
5k apt.
3k health insurance
100 liability
250 communication
100 dentist
X transportation
X food
X fun
X gifts
X social (should be under fun )
Put numbers instead of X and you could have what you are going to spend the first year. What should be really scary is how much you are going to pay in 20 years. That 3k for health insurance might be 6k. I’m not sure the 4% rule will help with that.
One thing to take into account is that you can get health insurance subsidies. The rules might vary by Kanton, in my Kanton a percentage of your wealth is counted towards your income. So if you have 300k in wealth and the associated income you could still get subsidies, with 1M in wealth you’ll no longer get subsidies.
And if you subtract health insurance, 300k is easily doable.
I think this 300k thing is too hardcore.
500 bicycle
3’300 bad illness (2’500 franchise + that other maximum amount)
10’000 bad dentist bill
1’000 dishwasher / laundry machine / any large size household machine
2’000 stuff breaks on the apartment and the landlord “legally correctly” forwards the bill to you
6’000 health issue that your insurances manages to not have to reimburse
lawsuit (ok would probably wipe out most ppl who dont have lawyer insurance)
I dont’s think its not doable, but the margin to unexpected expenses gets really small.
however if you managed to track your precise expenses over 10 years and find to be consistently fine with such a small budget, then there is not so much to stop you.
here the philosophy in people’s minds may make a difference: i consider myself wealthy and would not want to sneakily recieve support that is intended for those who need it. Of course, i wont actively refuse it if offered.
I would like to revive this thread. What is your FIRE number in 2026?
For me, before having kids I had a certain number in mind. Now with the additional expenses associated with kids (Kita, greater space requirements, the desire to be able to spend freely on them on things I value such as books and education, a desire to set them up in life) that feels quite insufficient in hindsight and I’m not entirely sure how to go about thinking what a reasonable number is
750k → first threshold. Would FIRE if helpful to protect my mental health.
1M → regular threshold. Would not consider a need to work anymore and might pursue other ventures.
1.5M → full FIRE. Would only keep working if I enjoy my work. May not care much about monetizing the ventures I’d do for fun.
In all scenarios, I think being properly rested and taking good care of myself, I’m likely to have activities that would bring in some money because I’d enjoy it and they are a goal in my life that would make me feel fulfilled.
Single, no kids.
In case you’re ok to share, I’d be interested to know how you counted your house?
TL;DR:
I’m counting it as part of my net worth, billing myself a fictitious rent that must pay for target net returns of 2% on unlevered real estate. In the scenarii with lower FU#s and depending on interest rates, I would have to sell it and rent instead.
Long version:
I go through several checks:
Fictitious allocation:
.
I consider unlevered real estate as roughly equivalent to (previous backtest made on backtest portfolio using US real estate and US financial assets):
.
35% Stocks
40% Bonds
25% Cash
.
Both my liquid and total allocation must be within parameters of what I consider FIRE compatible allocations (95%+ rate of success on the ERN success rates table: The Ultimate Guide to Safe Withdrawal Rates - Part 1: Introduction - Early Retirement Now). That’s roughly 50%+ stocks with a preferred target around 75%.
.
2.1 Expected returns:
.
I’m considering the following expected returns:
Stocks: 5%
Bonds: 0.5%
Cash: 0%
.
That means my simulated real estate unlevered returns should be at 1.95% (or roughly 2%), that is, the rent I bill myself should be: value of the home * 1.95% + insurance + land tax + wealth tax related to the home taxable value + 1% maintenance.
Safe Withdrawal Rate:
.
Using ERN’s SWR table, I can then calculate the safe withdrawal rate that applies to covering my expenses post receiving AHV (using 60 years of drawing down at my current age with conservative life expectancy) and the one that should apply to the complementary expenses I will have until then (lack of AHV pension and paying into AHV to reach 44 years of contributions). Calculating the 2 FU#s, I can add them together, which gives me my target FU# of 1.5M.
The lower numbers come from taking a hard look at my expenses and what I’d be willing to give up for actual freedom, as well as a good amount of trust in my ability to make do should things go sour.
I don’t have a FIRE number. My current fixed costs without debt repayments and taxes amount to CHF 37’203.40, rent being 44.3% of the total (this includes cleaning and parking). Assuming I get rid of my car and do the cleaning myself (since I’ll have time while FIRED), my fixed costs diminish to CHF 25’112.
So, let’s say that keeping my current lifestyle costs me shy of CHF 1M and reducing the “unnecessary” things, gets me to ~CHF 630K.
A lot of things can and will happen in 20 years time, mum wants to retire in 10 years, so I’ll probably profit on that and analyze the situation 5 years from now.
My current structure goes like this:
Once the 1st goal is reached, the second takes’ priority. I’ll probably take that trip to Japan in five years. But, this is where planning becomes tricky, do I want to stay in Japan ? Or just return to Switzerland afterwards ? Do I want to do the PPL there, or in Switzerland, my home country, or elsewhere ?
So, too many variables, for now global ETF with some quality stocks and chill. Once an opportunity appears to take a sabbatical or semi retire, I’ll take it.
This is where you reach the limits of what you can plan/anticipate. You’ll only know if you want to stay when you actually spend your year there.
At least you keep aware of the possibilities and can work towards them whichever option you choose.
It’s a tricky question. Simple math would have you believe that the number is closer than it feels in reality.
For example, for my annual expenses of 60,000 CHF with a 3% safe withdrawal rate, we get:
(60,000 CHF / year) / (3% / year) = 2,000,000 CHF
Well, I’m past that value and I still do not feel safe to retire. The number doesn’t seem real. I constantly have to remind myself about it when I’m feeling bad about spending money irresponsibly. At least when I still have a job I can comfort myself saying: I’ll just earn more.
But yeah, retirement is a challenge. I have no idea where I should live, how I should live, and who should I spend time with. I feel like my current life is incompatible with not having a job. It is tailor made to having a job.
PS oh, what makes it funny is that real estate in CH costs like 1-2 million, so even if I reach my FIRE value, I can’t afford to buy real estate. Eternal renter.
Well, nobody (*) really buys it outright in cash, don’t they?
With such a mortgage and taxation system we have in CH, it would be unwise to.
You should rather compare the cost of (total) owning vs. renting (of course accounting for opportunity cost).
Probably runs similarly over decades.
(*) Some might, most don’t.