What comes after FIRE?

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Hi everyone,

My account is new in the forum but I have been reading posts for a while already.

I was wondering if people close to reaching FIRE were struggling with the question of what comes after.

I am not sure if I reached my FIRE number yet because I am rather risk averse and am afraid that some unforeseen situation could complicate things if I stopped working .

About me: I am 36 years old, single, male, live in Geneva and since I started working around 12 years ago (after my studies), I managed to save a bit more than 1.2 million CHF. I live very frugally in a small 1 bedroom apartment. So, without counting taxes and social contributions, my yearly expenses are around 30k CHF. My job started paying very well since 2022 and I am earning around 240k CHF per year (active income ).

But I have a problem. I feel like FIRE broke me a bit as I feel very uncomfortable with spending money. Even spending 50 CHF is not something I would do without really thinking if I need to.

And also, given I always concentrated on working and saving, I feel like I would not even know what to do with my time if I was to retire.

To be honest, I lack a social life and am not too sure how to tackle this.

I was wondering if other people were in similar situations or were reflecting on what came after FIRE.

edit:

Hi everyone,

Thank you very much to all of you who responded. It really helped me with my introspection. The forum blocked me from continuing posting answers one by one because I am a new member, so I am posting it here.

Hi ma0,

On your first message:

The age part changes automatically. The other non-bold part about being male, I sure as hell don’t want to change.

On your second message:

As I assume most human beings, I oscillate between being happier and less happy. I am not unhappy. Am I as happy as I could be? Probably not. The pursuit of happiness is an important goal of many people I would say. I totally agree with your last sentence. The main goal of my post was to reflect on what comes after FIRE. Some people might have it figured out. If you had asked me 15 years ago what I would have done after having saved enough (even though I was not even working at the time), I probably would have had a clearer picture than today.

H i Brn dete,

Right? Time accelerates the older we get. When I was a kid, one year seemed like an eternity. But somehow now, it just flies away. COVID exacerbated that even further.

You are right, sports or other clubs are a good idea and I probably should work on not feeling too bad about spending some money on that.

Your last comment is also true, I don’t intend to quit my job.

Hi Akia,

Thank you for your message. I definitely agree with your first example. If you are using that 1K bike a lot, then it was a good investment. And if the 5K version did not come with significant added benefits, I don’t see why one would go for the 5K one.

About what I enjoy: reading, writing, sports but I guess I am looking for additional FIRE-friendly hobbies and some ideas were already provided to me in this discussion.

I did enjoy gaming in the past but nowadays not so much anymore.

On the 0.1% example. I see the point but I often take that a bit further and think what would happen if I did not earn any more money and I was to incur that expense every single day of my life for the rest of my life assuming I would reach an average age. Then all of a sudden the 1K is rather expensive. Also, I was super careful to choose a broker with the smallest possible costs, so no, I wouldn’t pay 20 francs as a fee to my broker in order to buy some stocks.

Hi nabalzbhf,

That is a good approach, to try new things and seek new experiences with an open mind.

I also agree with your response to Mirager. Friends and family are important. Luckily, I don’t have friends or family who would need financial assistance as they all have their own savings. Still, we do invite each other to dinner or lunch and I am not too skimpy on these occasions.

Hi PhilMongoose,

That is also one thing I am afraid of. If I pay for a gym membership for 2 months when there are some heavy discounts, I tend to go 3 times a week. But I never purchased a membership for 1 year and feel like I might lose motivation and it ends up being a waste of money. Then there are alternatives that let you cancel every month but if you do end up going for the whole year, it ends up costing more.

It is a good point, that the social aspect should also be incorporated into exercise to try to keep us motivated.

Hi Mirager,

Thank you for your input. I do see the appeal of a committed long term relationship with the right person. The no-strings-attached approach would not be for me but as you mention, we all have different preferences.

And last but not least, thank you very much for your message, FunnyDjo and for the invitation to the Whatsapp Group.

I agree, the “Why” is a question that can probably not be answered in its entirety but the journey is the goal for these kind of questions. I will take a look at the material you suggested.

I also agree that it is not too easy to define the FIRE number without knowing how life will evolve and for me at least, the FI still looks appealing but the RE part not so much anymore.

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It sounds like something you need to work on, that’s independent from FIRE. Maybe also defend your personal time more (if you currently work a lot more than 45 hours).

What do you do for vacations? Maybe start by setting up a “fun/hobby” budget so you don’t feel bad spending the money. (And force yourself to spend it, investing in yourself is also important).

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I’d change the bold part, ASAP.

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Hello @Thir ,

There is a lot of open subjects in your message.
It could be good topic discussion for our next meetup in Geneva if you feel to join. You could join the WhatsApp group because the last one was not advertise here

I think at your level you should focus on the Why ? What is bringing you joy outside of work and staying indoor.

Spending a minimum is necessary to enjoy life. You could listen to some podcast like

Like you do, I am also risk averse. I will refrain from FIRing before meeting a partner and starting a family if it is in your life objective.
It is better to estimate a lifespeding for a family if it is a goal.

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FIRE gives you freedom. It doesn’t teach you what to do with it, which is often the hardest part with freedom. That part is independent from FIRE and you can work on it while working.

As is often the case, it revolves around finding your “why”.

If it is a flight from stressful and/or undesirable work, I would make sure to build my mindset toward being able to recover, rebuild my energy, intellectual and physical abilities. If you can’t do it while working your current job, an option is taking a sabbatical or reducing your work percentage. Another option would be searching for another job and putting a few free months between the end of your current job and the start of the new one. If you feel bold enough, it could be your very first months of FIRE, provided you trust yourself to rebound and either find something meaningful to do afterwards or find another occupation that would not be worse than your current one.

If you already have something to look forward to, then do that. It can be implemented incrementally, potentially by reducing your work percentage. If finding people to do it with you is a problem, finding groups on Internet can help. I’ve had acquaintances going on meeting sites, stating clearly their hobbies and that they were in for hobby partners and not a love or sexual relationship and finding suitable people. It can take time, it may not succeed. Take heart.

If you just went for FIRE as a default without neither hating your job nor really looking forward to something, then use your current situation to probe what could really interest you. Switching jobs and industries is an option.

If you need ideas, my 3 go-to are:

  • physical activity, fitness : it also develops clarity of mind and you’ll meet people with the same interests at the gym, your club or on forums.

  • cooking : if you have time, it is a real pleasure and it does complement fitness activities well. You may meet people with similar interests on forums and if you meet someone from a different context, your cooking skills will always help you score points with them.

  • personal hygiene, including sleep, decluttering/cleaning, taking productive breaks when needed, potentially meditation, reading, etc. : you probably won’t meet many people through taking care of yourself but it helps building the mindset required for the rest.

If you need a start, I’ve heard having a dog is a good way to both keep a structure in your days and meeting other dog owners. Same goes with children.

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Exactly.
Unless it’s a deliberate choice, it’s a problem.

It’s not fun to be going to top of Kilimanjaro if there is no one to share the experience with.

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I don’t think that itself is a problem. Only if it’s holding you back from relevant spending, that’s a different matter.

As others said, only you know what you would like to spend your time on. You didn’t mention why you’d want to fire, either. If you don’t have plans and work isn’t too bad, you might as well continue a bit more. 1m assets are nice, but it’s not that much compared to your income or if your spending would increase.

Is work or saving habit holding you back from meeting people? If that’s what you are missing, anyway. Not everyone wants or needs a lot of social life. And even if you do, it’s still perfectly fine to enjoy yourself while no one else is around. That would actually be the way to meet the people you like to spend time with.

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Hi nabalzbhf,

Many thanks for your kind message. You are absolutely right. I guess, the FIRE part is more or less under control for now in my life and this is something else that I avoided for a bit too long which needs to be tackled now. I do work a lot more than 45 hours and this is a vicious circle. The more I work, the more I earn but at the same time, the more I work, the less I have time for other things and not having time for other things for too long means one loses interest in those other things. And when you start losing interest in other things, the only refuge is work, if that makes sense.

During my vacations, I usually read books and write (fiction literature). That will be an interesting mental exercise to try to set up a fun/hobby budget and force myself to spend it. It does not make me too comfortable but you are probably right that I should at least start with small amounts that have to go and not earn interest or dividends.

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Hi Mirager,

That would probably increase the yearly expenses significantly. And to be honest, this is one of the few things, where I would be happy to let it increase the expenses. It is also one of the reasons why I am not so sure what my FIRE number is. I feel like if I remained single, healthy and in the same life as today, I am probably not that far away. But life might change. And I suppose, this is the case for everyone, but it is not that easy to find one’s significant other. My experience with this topic can be summarized in “the ones interested in me, I was not interested in and the ones I was interested in were not interested in me.”

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That may help against his anxiety with regards to spending, but is otherwise a pretty surefire way of reversing his FIRE, IMO.

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Hi Abs_max,

I absolutely agree. I am very far away from the top of the mountain but I also think, it would be more enjoyable as a team. Still, I do think it is important to be able to enjoy the parts of the journey you do alone.

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Hi San_Francisco,

I agree, this would probably set me back a couple of years with FIRE but it might be worth it. Or not. I guess spending more would be acceptable but it should not become something where the net worth starts declining instead of growing. Otherwise, I would probably run very fast. :smiley:

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Imho this is a good thing. Don’t forget your roots and what brought you where you are in the first place. If it’s unhealthy - aka. you would like to spend more, but can’t then ofc try to battle this either by yourself or with the help of friends / a pro.

We also have a NW close to 1M as a couple, yet I’m not in the business of wasting money
 I feel like you probably also spend money on things you like and enjoy - I’ve yet to meet a person who doesn’t splurge on things they enjoy, so I’d just do that.

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Hi Brndete,

Many thanks for your message. I guess it depends how you define relevant spending. There are these theories about the needs and the wants. I would say, I would not blink at spending 50, 500 or even in the thousands if it is a need. Like, if I had a health issue that needed to be addressed, I would not save on that. But when I look for example at gym memberships, I often tell myself, I can also just exercise at home or in a park.

I guess, the FIRE journey started early for me, even earlier than my first salary. I wanted to have more time for my hobbies and be free when I was in school and for that I aspired to accelerate like crazy at the beginning of my career to then be free. The thing is, hobbies and interests change when you grow up .

I don’t dislike my job at all. It is my main source of social contacts, it lets me travel around Europe and I am a well respected professional in my field. So, you are right, I might not quit very soo n.

I agree with you also when you state that 1m is not that much in Switzerland. When I was a kid, I felt like it would be a lot but I suppose perspective changes, the more you have. Today, I still feel like 50m is a lot but someone with that net worth might think different ly.

It is also true that it does not seem like much given the salary but I did not always earn that much. The first time I crossed the 200k per year was in 2022 and this was before taxes and social contributions. Since then it increased even more even though less explosively and sometimes it even went back a little (in 2023 I earned less then 20 0k).

About the last question. I am not really a very social person. I don’t think it is work or my saving habit keeping me away from socializing. I do have my hobbies which are mostly done alone but they are not time consuming enough to fill out the void that would be generated if I left work.

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I have the same problem and have actively been ‘practising’ spending. I’d suggest you work on that while you are still working as you have money coming in. Since you are earning well now and 1.2m doesn’t go a long way in Geneva when you’re only 36, I think it makes sense to continue and working on the other stuff, like spending, at the same time.

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Hi Akia,

Many thanks for your message. It is not too clear where the limit is between healthy and unhealthy. I was thinking that in my case, it might be a bit unhealthy but thank you for putting it into perspective. You are right, if I really want something and if it is not horribly expensive, I might splurge. For example, I keep my smartphones for as long as I can. But a couple of years ago, I started getting messages from my banking apps that the old OS of my phone would soon not be supported anymore. I did go for a new phone of the latest model when I had to change. I could have taken something cheaper like the previous generation but I told myself: “No, it will last a bit longer if I take the newest one and even if probably, running the numbers, I could save some francs in the long run, this is a once in 7 years expense that I will accept.”

So, no, it is not that I want to spend more but can’t because of some psychological blocker but it is rather that I don’t want to spend more in most cases. Then again, the frontier between the two might not be as clear cut as we depict it.

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Hi PhilMongoose,

Many thanks for your message. It feels good to know that I am not alone with that problem. And it definitely makes sense to start practicing this while still working. Otherwise, it will be much harder when money is not coming in anymore (there is still passive income but I feel like passive income dwarfing active income is very hard to achieve without reducing the active income on purpose). Would you mind sharing how you started ‘practising’ spending? Did you start with little things? Did you put a budget for fun on the side?

It is also interesting to see different views on this. Some say that it is a good habit to not spend, others say that it can be a problem which needs to be addressed and I think everyone is right. We all need to find the right balance.

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Yes, I consciously set targets to buy some things I wouldn’t ordinarily buy. Then set a target threshhold so if I was thinking about buying something and it is below the target, then I would just buy it and not think it over (then gradually increase it).

One example was yesterday, I was at Coop. I have a container which I bring my breakfast in and it was broken. I saw a possible replacement at Coop. Normally, I’d order it online as it is cheaper, but due to my rule, I bought it then and there.

I figure if I don’t do it now when earning well, I will find it impossible when I have no income from a steady job. There are many stories of people who retire too scared to spend and die with most of their money unspent. I don’t want to end up that way.

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You may be already doing it but it sounds to me like a priority would be to set up a time budget for it. Hobbies don’t have to be expensive and writing sounds plenty awesome. However, if you are too tired during normal weeks to meaningfully do it, that may be something worth working on (not saying you are not doing it already, just making sure you consider it if you don’t).

Do you actually exercise at home or in a park?

One of the good, relatively high, expenses I’m making is taking an (online) coach (part of it was wanting to support the company running a free fitness forum I like). He checks on me regularly, sets targets and motivates me to have something to report, so to actually go out and train rather than stay at home.

I think you’re at the right place. Everybody is different and it is indeed a matter of balance. I have an all or nothing approach to spending: I ask myself if something will make a meaningful positive difference in my life. If it doesn’t, I don’t see a reason to spend anything on it. If it does, I usually don’t count and go for it, provided it won’t bankrupt me. I have unexpensive tastes, though, so that puts a natural check on my spending. My understanding is that you have a similar approach?

That approach necessitates to consider the current journey a part of our life to actually live and enjoy for what it is. If the purpose is quicker FIRE, then saving as much as possible now is the right answer but that leaves with the problem you are facing of having to practice the “spending on the things that matter” muscle once you do reach FIRE. It’s a hard path, I’d rather learn it incrementally on the way.

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Truth is that it’s easier to change the non bold part.
The first part is automatic, the second is somehow cheaper than change the status unfortunately.