VIVAT Multitalent does anyone know this company?

Hello mustachians! Hope you are well!

I came across this Liechtensteinische company : VIVAT Multitalent offering quite good return…

They invest in German real estate and offer a return of 5% from 5k invested and 8% for investment of 100k. You simply buy their bonds for 5 years.

I searched on the forum but couldn’t find any topic about this.

Does anyone know this company ? What are your thoughts ?

Thanks for your kind feedbacks!

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Maybe you can start, what’s your summary from reading the documents available on the website? What are the risks? How is it invested? What is their track record?

What are the return of similar investment with higher diversification? (e.g. german real estate funds)

edit: the weirdest thing is that they offer the same interest in CHF vs. EUR, seems like there’s some arbitrage opportunity :slight_smile:

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Honestly, I’m a bit surprised that such an offer is even legal.

Anyway, if you’re seriously considering this maybe read section 4.2.3 of the “Final Terms”.

Waldemar Hartung, a sole shareholder of the issuer and administrative board member of the issuer,
is also a sole shareholder and administrative board member of Multitalent AG, sole shareholder and
administrative board member of Multitalent II AG, sole shareholder and administrative board member
of Multitalent III AG, sole shareholder and administrative board member of VIVAT AG, partner and board
of directors member of SIA Multitalent Investment, sole partner and board of directors member of VIVAT
Exclusive GmbH, sole partner and board of directors member of unique capital GmbH, sole partner
and board of directors member of Multitalent Investment GmbH, sole partner and board of directors
member of Multitalent Investment II GmbH, sole partner and board of directors member of Multitalent
10 VIVAT II AG | Final Terms
Investment 3 GmbH, sole partner and board of directors member of VIVAT Investment GmbH, sole
partner and board of directors member of VIVAT Investment II GmbH, chairman of board at VIVAT
Multitalent AG and board of directors member of VIVAT Solution GmbH & Co. KG. These companies
also issue partial debentures or subordinated loans and intend to acquire investment objects in the
same categories as the issuer.
Waldemar Hartung is also a partner and/or managing director of project companies, which are eligible
as investment objects for the issuer himself or for the above-mentioned companies issuing partial
debentures or subordinated loans with different terms and conditions than the issuer. Specifically,
Waldemar Hartung is a sole partner and board of directors member of assetSolution UG, partner and
board of directors member of F+F Finanzinvestitionen GmbH, sole partner of Zinnowitz GmbH & Co.
KG, board of directors member of Rothenburg Grundstücks UG, VIVAT Akzent GmbH, VIVAT Rothenburg
GmbH & Co. KG, FFM-WohnTrend GmbH, VIVAT Sachwerte GmbH, Projekt Wendestrasse Erfurt GmbH
& Co. KG, real-estate company Liebenau Halle GmbH, real-estate company Bernburg Halle GmbH, realestate company Dresden Living GmbH & Co. KG and real-estate company “Alte Post” Oschatz GmbH &
Co. KG. Finally, Waldemar Hartung is a partner and board of directors member of Spirit Financial Group
GmbH as well as board of directors member of Spirit Investor GmbH & Co KG.
Mag. iur. Gerd Hermann Jelenik is also an administrative board member of Multitalent AG, Multitalent
II AG, Multitalent III AG, VIVAT AG, MT Performa Anstalt, MT Performa II Anstalt and the issuer. Besides,
Mag. iur. Jelenik is a managing director of CSC‘ Company Structure Consulting AG and Jelenik & Partner
AG.
This may lead to conflicts of interest and investment decisions may be influenced thereby.
Mr Daniel Hartung, son of Waldemar Hartung, is the Managing Director of project companies that are
considered by the Issuer as an investment property. Conflicts of interest could arise from the close
personal relationship between the managing director of the project companies and the administrative
board and sole shareholder of the Issuer.
VIVAT II AG has not undertaken any specific measures to prevent a conflict of interest.

Maybe I’m misreading this but it sounds like he could buy a property using Multitalent II AG from Multitalent AG at a higher price, than buy it using Multitalent III AG and so forth and then just sell it back market price before the bond payments are due - realize the loss and make Multitalent III AG insolvent (while Multitalent AG books a profit).

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Just the name of the company stinks to the sky for me.

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More like Multilevel AG :fire:

“Hey guys, should I invest in this scam waiting to happen?”

Personally I’d stick with tried and proven real estate funds. Ideally ETFs with low TERs. If you want to take on more risk, buy real estate directly, as it has historically been possible to realize gains like that in certain locations.

There is an inverse correlation between interest rates and real estate pricing, and it is only a matter of time before this is reflected on the market. Expecting a 30% downturn in real estate, I will personally stay away from such investments

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Maybe you can start, what’s your summary from reading the documents available on the website? What are the risks? How is it invested? What is their track record?

I didn’t look deep into the documents of the offer. But they say that they invest in German real estate and gold as per their website : https://multitalent.ag/fr/investments/uebersicht

I won’t invest in this anyway I was just curious how it is possible to offer such high return nowadays. Seems too nice to be true

“Hey guys, should I invest in this scam waiting to happen?”

It’s been already 10 years that this is going on https://multitalent.ag/en/unternehmen/firmengeschichte

Some people putting their money in this company otherwise it wont keep going for so many years… But for how long maybe it can last ? Who knows

if it sounds too good to be true… then it might be too good to be true.
Be aware that real estate prices in Germany have come down quite a bit in the last months… and the trend might as well continue.
Let appart, i would never invest in such a company… Liechtenstein ist not really reknowed for their transparency and seriousness… :wink:

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Hi @ndilla - Not sure you decided to move forward with the investment and you have further insights - If so, write back here. I came across a similar offering from a financial advisor. I decided to investigate this further and found these resources:

  1. BaFin Warning

  2. Berlin Blog thread

Given the current real estate market in Germany, I think it is relatively safe to invest in this domain. However, their business is highly leveraged and Vivat is on the radar of the German Financial Watchdog. Better investigate further before taking any risks.

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Hello @MiloVentimiglia thanks for the links I will have a look. I didn’t go ahead with this investments as I it seemed to me a bit shady. Found better opportunities :slight_smile: