The best hands-off investment solutions for broadly diversified passive investing

Introduction

Through my interest in the matter of investing and the age group me and my peers are in (35-45), the topic of how to invest savings for retirement pops up more and more (and I’m not* initiating these discussions, I swear :crossed_fingers:).

The major pain point I’m encountering almost every time is probably also one of the reasons most people choose the bank they’re already with and their respective high-fee, underperforming active fund savings plans: complexity.

Because most people want their investing to be super-easy:

  • monthly standing order
  • no dividends to deal with
  • no manual rebalancing
  • no need to convert currency
  • a Swiss solution
  • eTax document
  • bonus: automatic handling of one-off sums (bonus, 13th salary, whatever)

Solutions

Here are the best solutions I’ve found, with various amounts of hand-holding.
For simplicity’s sake I’ve left out stamp tax that would apply to all solutions anyway. I’ve also ignored any sign-up bonuses, limited-time fee reductions or unproven features (i.e. finpension’s reclaiming of WHT).

The «You can set it up by yourself» solution

The easiest solution people can set up in minutes by themselves (without people like us helping them setting it all up) is finpension. The global market-cap weighted strategy is already the default one, so no need to tinker or customize – just start transferring money.

Fees

  • 0.47% p.a.
    • custody fees: 0.3% (tax-deductible)
    • wealth management fees: 0.09% (not tax-deductible)
    • TER: 0.08%
  • additional stock market fees when buying/selling

Pros

  • investing from CHF 1
  • good diversification with 80% of the investable market (estimate, as indices EURO STOXX 50, FTSE 100 and S&P 500 are used instead of broader indices)
  • sporadic lump-sum investments are handled automatically
  • withdrawal plan possible
  • eTax document included

Cons

  • relatively high fees
  • no exposure to Canada, Denmark, Israel, Norway, Sweden**
  • 1% stays uninvested as interest-free cash
  • unspecified “additional stock market fees”
  • no possibility to transfer titles to another broker, you’ll need to sell shares

The «I’ll help you set it up and maintain it, but you could probably do it yourself someday» solution

If you’re fine with helping them set everything up and help them make adjustments every few months or when investing a lump-sum (or alternatively teach them how to do it yourself), I’d recommend neon investment plan with the Invesco FTSE All-World ETF. Adjusting it is pretty easy, so even investing noobs would probably feel confident to do it themselves.

Fees

  • 0.15% p.a.
    • TER: 0.15%
  • 0.5% when selling, or transferring the shares to another broker for CHF 100

Pros

  • the lowest fees of all solutions
  • investing from < CHF 10
  • great diversification with 90% of the investable market
  • eTax document included

Cons

  • when changing the monthly transferred amount, you also need to adjust the investment plan to the same amount
  • sporadic lump-sum investments need to be handled manually by increasing the investment plan amount for one month and then changing it back after
  • there’s a buying commission of 0.5% deducted that is then later refunded, so you’ll accrue some additional cash that needs to be manually invested (like with above points)
  • high fees for selling or transferring the position to another broker

The «Let’s use a proper broker, but you will probably always need my help» solution

If you’re fine with them probably never being able to do stuff by themselves, i.e. you having to help them, go with Saxo AutoInvest and iShares MSCI ACWI.

Fees

  • 0.2% p.a.
    • TER: 0.2%
  • 0.08% (minimum of CHF 3) when selling

Pros

  • investing from < CHF 100
  • great diversification with 85% of the investable market
  • sporadic lump-sum investments are handled automatically
  • eTax document included

Cons

  • the most complex/intimidating solution compared to the other ones, being a proper broker
  • the position is not part of your normal portfolio, with no possibility to transfer it to another broker, you’ll need to sell the position

The «But I really want a proper Swiss bank» solution

If someone only feels comfortable investing their money directly with a Swiss bank, I’d first explain what the risks and effects are when the companies default. If they still insist, I’d recommend the BLKB investment fund account.

Fees

  • 0.57% p.a.
    • custody fees: 0.1% (tax-deductible)
    • TER: 0.34% (CH) / 0.47% (World ex CH)
  • currency conversion fees when buying/selling World ex CH (which is in USD)

Pros

  • investing from CHF 50
  • sporadic lump-sum investments are handled automatically
  • half the stamp tax (because of CH-domiciled funds)
  • eTax document included
  • (freely selectable CH bias)

Cons

  • high TER
  • unspecified currency conversion fees
  • no exposure to emerging markets
  • only sustainable funds available
  • (manual rebalancing necessary)

The «But I really want a CH bias» solution

If someone believes it is important to have a share of CH stocks that is significantly higher than market cap, I’d first explain that a CH bias can become a concentration risk (I’d argue 10-20% is fine, 40% is too much).

If they insist, you can modify finpension’s pre-defined strategies to increase exposure to CH, or add a Swiss ETF to a Saxo AutoInvest account. You could also add a Swiss ETF to the neon investment plan, but this will incur a buying comission of 0.5%. And BLKB needs the weight of CH being set manually anway.

Summary

Features finpension neon invest Saxo BLKB
Fees p.a. 0.47% 0.15% 0.2% 0.57%
% of total market ~80% 90% 85% 80%
Minimum investment (CHF) 1 10 100 50
Automatic monthly change
Automatic lump-sum
Withdrawal plan
eTax
Complexity Low Medium-low High Low

(More or less) Honorable mentions

  • Yuh: basically the same as neon invest, but it uses Vanguard’s distributing FTSE All-World ETF which has a ~50% higher TER and because it’s distributing, you’ll lose out on ~1% of dividends (which, even though the ETF is bought in CHF, are paid in USD) because of the currency conversion fees. So you’ll lose out on ~0.1% yearly performance. Because they use fractional trading, there’s no leftover money that stays uninvested, but this also means it’s not possible to transfer the position to another broker (so you’d need to sell it for a 0.5% fee). In summary, I see no reason to use it over neon.
  • findependent: the default strategies have a way too high CH bias to be considered, but you can set up a custom portfolio. For this, you need to have invested at least CHF 5000 (you could easily start with a default strategy until you reach 5k, as which such a small portfolio a CH bias is acceptable). You can then add the same ETF as with Yuh and end up with a solution with yearly fees of 0.66%. It’s in a weird place between the other solutions: neon requires more manual management, but is over four times cheaper and easier to set up, and Saxo is more complicated to set up, but three times cheaper. Both neon and Saxo are therefore superior solutions IMO.
  • Swissquote: their savings plan is just an automation of manual orders, so you pay the usual commission and other fees, which amount to about CHF 12 per order. Add to that CHF 100-200 custody fees per year. Saxo beats them in every way except that Swissquote offers a wider range of titles and fractional shares.
  • VIAC Invest: although 0.46% p.a., it’s actually cheaper than finpension as stamp tax is included in that fee (although they might be neck and neck again in the future by finpension’s attempt at reclaiming WHT), but it lacks a market-cap weighted strategy, so you need to create a manual strategy. And as there’s no world ETF, when doing so you need to manually rebalance CH, US, Europe, Pacific and EM. If they had a market-cap strategy, or a way to reduce CH bias by at least half while still maintaining the automatic rebalancing, they would be my absolute favorite and I would recommend them to everybody. Oh well.

Exclusions

Here are the other solutions and the reasons why I didn’t include them above:

Solution Reason for exclusion
Alpian No passive strategy
Clevercirles No passive strategy
Invoya No passive strategy
Kaspar& Concentration risk (40% CH stocks)
Radicant No passive strategy
Raiffeisen Rio Intransparent strategy
Selma No passive strategy
Swissquote Invest Easy No passive strategy
UBS key4 Concentration risk (40% CH stocks)
Vontobel Volt Intransparent strategy, not possible to exclude thematic ETFs
True Wealth Active weighing of world regions (not based on market cap) for default strategy, manual rebalancing of regions required for custom strategy
ZKB No passive strategy

*well, mostly
**Irrelevant? Novo Nordisk might disagree.

11 Likes

Is it possible to consider IBKR as a “set up to forget” investment option?

It is possible to set up automatic monthly purchases of one or more ETFs (US and IE). It is also possible to set up a standing order and have dividends automatically reinvested (or simply choose accumulative ETFs).

Personally, I have two monthly recurring investments on IBKR: VT + SLICHA.

2 Likes

Yuh offers a passive solution too (but fixed amount and frequency). However, it only makes sense if you choose one of the six free ETFs to buy (otherwise it’s 0.5%) but that does include e.g. VWRL. That way you only pay the stamp duty when buying, and only face the TER (e.g. 0.22% with VWRL) as ongoing cost. Very similar to neon savings plan.

It is a bit prohibitive for withdrawing too, which isn’t too bad for certain investors. Either you sell at 0.5% cost, or you cash out by opening a full Swissquote account (near instant), transfer the titles (some days), and sell for flat fee of ca. 10 CHF plus stamp duty. But, you then either terminate the contracts or face the account fee from Swissquote (minimum ca. 100 CHF/p.a.).

I think IBKR is way too complicated for a novice fire-and-forget investor. There is a reason those new offers use child-like marketing and gamification; everything that looks too much like serious money seems to scare people off.

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You can go 99% VWRL, and this what I would recommend.

Flatex if you are okay exchanging and transferring EUR.

P.S. I see that you lump together robo advisors and brokers with investment plans. Not a problem by itself, but they are quite different things.

Nevertheless the biggest problem remains the readiness of people to invest and how much they are going to blame you when things go south.

3 Likes

If rebalancing is not needed , easiest is to open Swissquote account (which is a 3 in one account including banking services) and just buy a mix of SPDR ACWi and CHSPI.

All purchases are in CHF. All sales are in CHF. The CHSPI dividends would be in CHF and can be used for normal payments or custody fees. ACWI would keep accumulating. So no currency drama, no dividend reinvestment necessary. Swiss bank , Swiss regulation, offices in big cities. No DA-1 needed and no issues with US estate taxes.

Even if the investor rebalance once a year , it’s enough. And if they forget, it’s still not going to be bad.

Cost -: custody fees 80-200 CHF (Max annual) + (0.075 - 0.15% stamp duties + ~10 CHF)for every buy transaction of these ETFs

I saw that a recurring buy is also possible to setup on SQ for even lazier investors. I don’t see a need of going through robo advisory services for basic investments.

This is what I do for my SQ portfolio.

P.S -: Neon might be fine too. I just don’t like their 0.5% sell fees.

1 Like

Well, I guess once it’s all set up it can be considered a hands-off solution, although it is quite a step up in complexity compared to other solutions. It not being a Swiss bank will scare a lot of people away as well.

Thank you, I added it as well.

Has SPDR ACWI recently been included in the titles that can be bought regularly with Swissquote’s savings plan?

I think findependent is the best hands-off solution to test things out, as the first 2’000 CHF (3’000 CHF with a referal code) are invested free of charge (TER only), and from 5’000 CHF onwards one can choose 99% VWRL, with dividends reinvested.
So IMHO with < 5’000 CHF invested, the home bias issue is negligible and after that, the issue is solved. :slight_smile:

Didn’t know you couldn’t choose your own funds under 5k.

Why do you prefer it to finpension?

Because VT VWRL.

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As you correctly pointed out, complexity is a big problem with many solutions.

Findependent is a simple one fund solution and very intuitive to set up.

→ I just tried to set up a finpension invest portfolio. By putting “basic knowledge” I couldn’t get over 40% stocks with auto select nor with self select. :grimacing:

Jesus, they don’t let you choose whatever you want? :roll_eyes: And findependent allows you to be completely free in your investment decision, no matter what you answer during onboarding?

VWRL in and of itself doesn’t have any magical component that makes it better than covering the world with multiple funds or other world ETFs.

What do you two prefer exactly? More complete coverage of the world market?

I trust FTSE can do better indexing than finpension, given their granularity of holdings of 1%. You have wrote about it yourself. I also trust Vanguard to do rebalancing between holdings in VWRL better and cheaper than finpension in their all-world portfolio.

We were talking about simple solutions, right?

3 Likes

Hi. I do not actually know what is savings plan.
I just buy it myself

But I know SQ offers recurring investments. Never tried it though

No. If you want more than 40%, they say “please customise the questions to determine your risk capacity.”

Findependent also suggests an investment solution for you, but then lets you choose a higher/lower stock percentage.

In a simple hands-off solution I prefer an easy to understand broad based market cap portfolio, ideally with just one fund.

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Sure, I see it the same way, I was simply unsure/interested in what your reasons were.

Well I’d give finpension a pass for the “simple solution” aspect, as the distribution and rebalancing happens automatically. So for the user it is not actually more complicated than 1 ETF.

So in summary it basically comes down to finpension and findependent:

  • finpension
    • has lower fees
    • there’s no minimum investment
    • there’s the (so far unproven) ability to get US WHT back (but only for portfolios >70k)
    • but the world coverage has not insignificant gaps
  • findependent
    • has a proper world coverage
    • but it’s not a preset strategy so you have to have at least 5k invested and then set this strategy up yourself
    • but while you’re at it, it’s possible to set up a home bias* without having to rebalance other regions as well
    • if Vanguard finally decides to lower VWRL’s fees (LOL), and/or with sums of 50k or more, fees could quickly approach those of finpension

The search for a fitting solution that isn’t afraid of uppercase letters is still ongoing however.

*even fancier ones with SLI or SPI Select Dividend 20, but I know, nobody cares about that aside from us

3 Likes

Personally, I recommend finpension to people asking me for a recurring investment.
I know it’s not the cheapest option, but it’s one of the most user friendly option and the support is reactive.
And I recommend Swissquote for a big one time investment (more than 500k) with an accumulating ETF traded in CHF.

A lot of people want a provider that they can trust, being based in Switzerland and a phone support, strongly increase the trust

1 Like