Taxes with B vs C permit

[ThriftySquirrel]

One thing to note down is that with a B permit, yes you can do the tax return and then it depends on which one is better but let’s say it’s equal to C permit. The thing is you will get this money at some point in the future and I still haven’t gotten my return for the year 2021… So there’s that I believe that there’s some interest but ofc extremely low.

Though for some people this might be an advantage as it is some “forced savings” but I doubt that will not be the case here all that much.

[nabalzbhf]

@Dunkoff

Any idea where I can find the tax on wealth ? or values from another canton to have a ballpark number

From quick googling, 0.17% for values over 75k CHF (for single) for SG

(numbers are very different from canton to canton)

[Dunkoff]

Thank you @nabalzbhf !

[DonaldDuck]

I am pushing this thread again since I came across this webpage (Taxmaze.ch) recently. No guarantee if the values are correct and of course one needs to keep in mind the tax rate on a C permit is dependent on the actual declarations meaning it can get lowered substantially whereas the B permit takes into account flat rate declarations. Nevertheless, I really like the webpage and might be helpful to others also. I noticed some mistakes however, e.g., the declaration regarding wealth or dividends is cantonal based and not always the same value.

@Abs_max

For people who are not obligated to file tax return, the tax is based on Quellensteuer rates. This rate is often based on cantonal average rate. Hence depending on Gemeinde Quellensteuer might be advantageous our disadvantageous.

If I understood it correctly on top of the different tax rate at source with a B permit (due to flat tariff+flat rate deductions) vs C permit (actual communal tax rate of municipality + actual declarations) B permit is taxed on gross income, while C permit is taxed on taxable income.
So in other words, the federal tax and cantonal tax are also not the same between B and C since at source they are based on the gross income and on C permit it is on the taxable income which varies a lot dependent on the declarations?

[Abs_max]

@DonaldDuck

If I understood it correctly on top of the different tax rate at source with a B permit (due to flat tariff+flat rate deductions) vs C permit (actual communal tax rate of municipality + actual declarations) B permit is taxed on gross income, while C permit is taxed on taxable income.
So in other words, the federal tax and cantonal tax are also not the same between B and C since at source they are based on the gross income and on C permit it is on the taxable income which varies a lot dependent on the declarations?

First of all, I hope it’s clear that above a particular threshold , it doesn’t matter if what is the permit (B or C). If one needs to file IT return , then tax will be exactly the same

Now about quellensteuer (tax at source) for B permit. Yes it’s based on Gross income but it does include some standard deductions. I would assume that tax rates take all of this into account and employers know what they are doing. I don’t think we should try to build a rule about gross income or taxable income. The quellensteuer rules are at link below.

In my view , it’s best to always just do the math for both situations separately and try to compare.

div_q_informationsblatt_qs_2024_EN.pdf

[DonaldDuck]

@Abs_max

First of all, I hope it’s clear that above a particular threshold , it doesn’t matter if what is the permit (B or C). If one needs to file IT return , then tax will be exactly the same

Yes, I understand that.

Now about quellensteuer (tax at source) for B permit. Yes it’s based on Gross income but it does include some standard deductions. I would assume that tax rates take all of this into account and employers know what they are doing. I don’t think we should try to build a rule about gross income or taxable income. The quellensteuer rules are at link below.

In my view , it’s best to always just do the math for both situations separately and try to compare

Oh, my apologies I must have misinterpreted it then. I thought taxation at source includes the before mentioned “Grundlage fuer die Berechnung des Quellensteuertarife des Bundes”

qst-berechnungsgrundlagen-2024-de.pdf

I thought that basically the tax rate at source is already lowered due to some of these deductions such as 800 CHF for fare, etc.

[Abs_max]

@DonaldDuck

I thought that basically the tax rate at source is already lowered due to some of these deductions such as 800 CHF for fare, etc.

You might be right. The thing is that I never researched into detail of Quellensteur calculation so I am not sure how much deduction for each aspect is assumed. I shared the link hopefully that clarifies

[DonaldDuck]

Thanks a lot, I will surely have a look. Does not have an impact for me personally as I need to file taxes regardless. I always found it difficult to understand the exact tax rates and differences and was just curious plus I thought that interactive map is quite nice to see differences.