Tax declaration - Degiro - Da-1 - Withholding taxes

Hello

I’m french, domiciled in Zurich.
Until last year, I have done my investments through a swiss broker only so it was relatively easy.

Last year, I started Degiro and I have many questions regarding the tax declaration.
I did not receive many dividends last year but will receive many this year so this year is a good one to “begin” with taxes.
Last year I had in my portfolio direct stocks from many countries, and funds investing globally domiciled in Lux or in Ireland.

  1. a) I have 2 french stocks where my dividend was taxed at source at 28% while I think the normal tax rate should be 12.8% because as a non resident I should not pay the “prelevement sociaux” of 17.2% (not 100% sure about those numbers as 17.2+12.8=30 not 28…). Can I use the Da-1 form ( i never used it) to be taxed at the correct rate ? Or do I have to claim this back to France/Degiro directly (Apparently with a form 5000-xyz I have ).
    b) Can I have degiro to withheld only the right amount (12.8%) ? I heard there is a form 5000-x for that but I don’t know which one.

  2. in 2020, my shell dividend was taxed at 15%, I assume it’s correct. Since I will receive much more dividend from many countries in 2021, how can I check that the taxation at source was right ?

  3. I guess it works the same with funds, according to their domiciles, right ? But I have a few accumulating funds. By mistake I did not declare the underlying income in the previous years and I never heard a thing. Now that I know the rule, can you confirm it would be a bad idea to be lazy and not report all the funds i own ?

Thank you

The general rule is that you have to claim what can be claimed (with the form 5000-xyz in your specific case). You have to ask for tax deduction with the DA-1 for what you are unable to claim back. I do not understand why you had a tax of 28% as it does not look like that in this document.

Please check this other document, I guess 15% is correct.

You have to report everything in your tax declaration. Penalty is up to three time the tax you avoided plus 4% cumulative interest each year. The tax man will investigate up to 10 years.
For the funds in LUX or IRL there is no claim to do. It is not the case if you have funds from other countries (US, DE,…)

If you own the French stock from a broker which is not in France you will indeed have 15% of source tax on top of “non claimable one”, the clearing company is taking care of this. To get those 15% back you need to ask the tax office in France directly, you won’t be able to get that back from the DA-1 as it only works for the 12.8% part which cannot be claimed back. I’m also French and have a portfolio of French stocks, I first had them in CH as well but after the first dividend and understanding how this works, I sold everything and opened an account with Fortuneo in France.

Regarding dividends in general each country is different there is no general rule. Dividend in NL are indeed taxed at 15% and there is no on top tax so you can claim the 15% directly in the DA-1, worth noting for NL stocks: if you get a dividend in shares there is no source tax at all.

I only invest in stocks whose source tax is simple to handle :

  • French Stocks from a French broker (no on top tax just the 12.8% you can get back from DA-1)
  • NL Stocks (no on top tax just the 15% you can get back from DA-1)
  • US Stocks from a broker that supports W8BEN like interactive brokers (no on top tax just the 15% you can get back from DA-1)
  • UK Stocks (no source tax at all)

Funds are usually domiciled in countries with tax treaties like ireland, luxembourg and US. There are many threads on the topic of picking the domicile of a fund to optimize taxes. In general US ones are the best especially if the underlying index has a lot of US stocks.

Anyway taxes are a complex topic and claiming back source income tax in various countries is really cumbersome so try to avoid it.

1 Like

Thanks a lot HoiZame and bamboo.

By reading and partipating to this forum, you confirm you have read and agree with the disclaimer presented on http://www.mustachianpost.com/
En lisant et participant à ce forum, vous confirmez avoir lu et être d'accord avec l'avis de dégagement de responsabilité présenté sur http://www.mustachianpost.com/fr/