Matter of opinion and the personal experience/background, obviously.
Croatian is a Slavic language at base, with many loan words from German, now from English, Turkish and others. They use latin alphabet. You can have a terrible pronunciation and still be understood. And if you don’t speak correctly, nobody is going to make fun of you, it is not France.
They have special hospitals / wards with English speaking medical personnel for foreigners with private medical insurances in touristic places. Need to clarify details, but it is available.
My GF is Italian and had no struggle to learn Serbian. It‘s not like it‘s a completely different language (slavic languages). Many words will be easy to remember. Nose is „nos“, car is „auto“, TV is „televisor“, I am is „ja sam“ (similiarly written to „Je suis“ in French) etc.
Good point. I would say this means a lot of sun hours and warm springs and autumns. Of course, for northern people the downside is that summers are quite hot.
Personally, as a Greek married to Serb I’d consider either country to return to after become FI working here given we have property in both countries which is a big need taken care of. My kids can, should and I wish will stay here. As someone who’s lived abroad from 18-33 I have no issue with leaving my kids in CH and me & my wife being somewhere else. After all, they are growing up here, speak perfect German, they wouldn’t even BE abroad, just mummy and daddy would. I think CH is a really great country, they can make their life here or in the surrounding civilised nations while I go back to live in a cheaper place. “Bottom in the city, top in the village” is something we say in Greece.
Caveat, not looking to RE or live frugally, this is just my exit strategy.
1) Quality of life :
Which cities do you like in particular? I’m from Athens, arschloch-filled scheisshole that it is, I love it, and as a Athenian I more than fulfill the stereotype of “asshole from the capital looking down on everyone else” I wouldn’t live IN Athens anymore though, after living in CH for a while now I get agoraphobia by the sheer number of people and lack of nature whenever I go there. Switzerland really is a wonderful country. My wife prefers cities bit more than I do. I’d live 30-50km from it so popping in and out wouldn’t be a big deal, and quality of life would be far better. Similar about Serbia, somewhere reasonably close to Belgrade but not in it.
What are some nice places where you’d like to live if you like nature? Mountains? Sea?
Atypically for a Greek, I don’t care for the sea much, much more of a mountain person. Both countries have beautiful places - nowhere near as pristine as Swiss nature. Serbia, having gone through 10 years of civil war, has many run down places but there’s a dynamism there, people want to make their life better. Whether the place will develop into a pocket dictatorship with the current-eternal government we’ll see. Flashing a Greek passport opens many doors in Serbia.
What are the local languages? Are they easy to learn?
Well, one is my mother tongue and understand a fair bit of Serbian, but most younger people speak good English in either country.
How easy is it to integrate the local culture?
Eh, I don’t like or fit in with the typical Greek/Serbian style, neither do I particularly want to. I am big on the “I” in FI, and that includes from other people. Other than that it’d be easy to integrate given we both have relatives and friends and would be equally adopted in either country as locals. Greeks are not socially or community conscious. What struck me living in England for many years was that someone house could be a pigsty but their front yard would be pristine (and they’d keep it, and defend it being pristine). Greece is the exact opposite, public infrastructure is dilapidated while people put great effort in their houses being as good as they can be - often above their means.
Serbia is actually quite good in a social sense, people don’t seem to care much about the state and infrastructure but they do care about other people, they are extremely warm and hospitable.
Is the country generally safe?
Yes, both are very safe, likely safer than most richer places in Europe.
2) Cost of life :
Greece is progressively, acceleratingly becoming ferociously expensive for the salaries of most people. The middle class is gradually splitting into rich and poor in a very ugly way. To be pretty comfortable one would need 3000/month if renting and ~2000 if not, about half that cost for Serbia. The thing that’s not apparent if you aren’t from Greece is that the state may be bankrupt but there are many VERY rich people there. Eye-wateringly rich.
Serbia is also becoming expensive very fast for the salaries offered, but prices seem dirt cheap eg for a Greek, much more so for someone with a Swiss salary.
Cost of food
Depends, you can get very good quality food in both countries for a fraction of central/north European countries, but both are becoming expensive. When we lived in Greece we’d spend 300 euros/month on food as a family of 4. About half would be pretty good for Serbia. Of course 300 is what I spent yesterday in Leclerc but it’ll last us a couple of weeks. Our Christmas shopping in Migros was that much
In terms of food, neither country knows what to do with cows, they are pretty good with pork, great with lamb, sheep and goat. Greece has amazing cheese, fruits, fish and seafood. Serbia has good vegetables but doesn’t seem to know what cheese is (most ex-socialist countries forgot how to make cheese), or stuff that come out of salty water. Drinks are passable in either.
Cost of transportation
Petrol is more expensive in Greece than in CH, public transport is mediocre at best, and not very cheap either. TOLLS are moronically expensive. Car insurance is about 1/5 of what it is here.
Cost of Healthcare
Depends! Private health insurance is about 1/3 of what health insurance is in CH but climbs fast once one gets older, public is nearly free at the point of delivery (but expensive in terms of taxes), dependable, with competent doctors but poor infrastructure. Among the healthcare issues of Greece is that while the public healthcare system was set up well 50 years ago, a parallel private healthcare system was allowed to grow and thrive, to the point most people there fork up high fees for additional private health insurance. At the same time there’s not as much public pressure as there should have been - to bring the infrastructure of the public system up to that of the private one - because a) people make do by having both, and b) there’s a VEEEEERY long gravy train profiting everyone (insurers, doctors running private clinics in the afternoons with their public hospital patients, suppliers, drug manufacturers, salesmen, academics, politicians), at the expense of the ordinary people who’re paying a very expensive public healthcare system AND private health insurance and not getting their money’s worth. Greeks are not at all community-conscious, everyone is out for themselves, and this includes healthcare. They’ll endlessly complain that doctors extort bribes for faster treatment yet when it’s their turn they will readily bribe because “health is above all”, so they complain about a rotten system and when it’s their turn they happily feed it. They’ll complain about taxes and then do everything in their power to evade them, including feeding the very people responsible for taxation, so that THEY are ok (for now…) and let throw everyone else under the proverbial bus. Repeat ad nauseam for 50 years and then you’ll see what state this leaves a country and society in.
How many years of expenses would be covered by 1M CHF? (this is an arbitrary number, but that will give a point of reference for everybody)
Living rent-free we used to spend about 1500/month, but we had a pretty high standard of living (in Greece), didn’t care or take care about expenses, so I’d imagine 1mn CHF would go a long way, possible indefinitely with careful withdrawal rate and/or investments. Assuming inflation I still think 25 years are very doable. That amount in Serbia would probably never end.
3) Taxes and Investments
How are taxed capital gains?
Greece: UCITS ETF capital gains are tax free, dividends are taxed at only 5%. Can’t talk about Serbia.
How is income taxed?
Moronically high, a well-paying job easily hits 45-50% tax brackets. Freelancers…let’s not talk about it, extortionately high if they are law-abiding.
What about social contributions?
Moronically high, public pensions are a complete Ponzi scheme.
How much social contribution and health system cost, when you are not working ?
No idea.
4) Climate
What to expect form the weather if one wanted to move here
Funnily enough, the climate is the one thing I don’t like in either country as I can’t stand heat.
Greece: climate change is real, the country has turned from having 4 distinct seasons to nearly having a rainy season and a dry season. Summers are getting unbearably hot, and ~Nov-May there’s a lot of rain. Depends where one is. Aegean islands are hot and dry in the summer and cooler, windy, and wet in the winter. Ionian islands are cooler overall. Crete is hot and humid in the summer and windy and wet in the winter. The thing about Greece is elevation, there is a lot of it, meaning there are places which get very cold in the winter, with a lot of snow, and more bearable in the summer.
Serbia has continental weather: very hot dry summers, very cold winters
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I wouldn’t live IN Athens anymore though, after living in CH for a while now I get agoraphobia by the sheer number of people and lack of nature whenever I go there. Switzerland really is a wonderful country. My wife prefers cities bit more than I do. I’d live 30-50km from it so popping in and out wouldn’t be a big deal, and quality of life would be far better. Similar about Serbia, somewhere reasonably close to Belgrade but not in it.