I did this and it was scary but worked out very well 
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Chances for making good friends and have nice neighbors are definitely higher in Poland. Earnings depends on profession. Successful life depends on definition. For me for example, itâs doing what I want whenever I want. With my savings it will be much easier in Poland than in Switzerland.
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Of course partly I do agree with you. On the other hand, is there really not more than âbeing successfulâ and âhigh earningsâ in life? It is all about the question live to work or work to live.
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How come? Some bad personal experience?
Donât know any profession that would earn as much as in Switzerland.
Iâd say people like me and you are examples that one may live his whole adolescent life in Poland, get education there, and still succeed in Switzerland. If I had kids, however, and they were born in Switzerland, I would try to get them the Swiss citizenship. If they wanted to pursue higher education, I would also send them outside of Poland. Polish higher education sucks in the rankings.
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I know people who earn +20k PLN net as Senior Software Engineers and the cost of living in Poland is 4-5 times lower (especially in other big cities than Warsaw - like Cracow, Wroclaw, Gdansk, etc). So I think itâs not a bad deal.
Thatâs true, although I think STEM majors at Warsaw University or Warsaw Technical University arenât bad (even if they are low in the rankings).
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These are some silly stereotypes. And anyway, in Zurich alone there are like 30% of immigrants or maybe more, so you can choose from people all around the World. I know many Polish people who live here.
Seriously? So they are on B2B with a daily rate of over 1200 PLN net? Because 30k gross thatâs a directorâs salary in Warsaw. Anyway, their equivalents here in Switzerland earn over 1200 CHF per day, so thatâs still not higher. And weâre talking about a very small group of people.
When I did my calculations, it was about 3x. I mean, there are people in this forum who spend 400 CHF per month on food for 2 adults. Can you feed two people for 400 PLN per month? I seriously doubt it. Things like car, gas, electronics, holidays abroad cost almost the same.
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These are serious stereotypes. Youâre living in big city among young international folk. Go to a smaller town and talk to a +40 year old lady. Itâs equivalency of going to countryside next to Radom and talking to a 80 year old lady in Poland.
Without immigrants this land would be not inhabitable.
Lol, I did that in 2016.
From what I know, itâs a new normal, at least for IT people and not even in Warsaw, but in Wroclaw for example. A little over 2 years ago I was in the recruitment process where 25k gross per month (not B2B, but normal employment) was already on the table (confirmed) and they were trying to get even more (because I was asking ;)). It was senior admin job (not developer).
Add to the equation this: in Switzerland and Poland job announcement consists of 50 lines of text. In Switzerland you have 49 lines of requirements and 1 line âwhat we offerâ (mainly salary hehe). In Poland you have 5 lines of requirements and 45 lines âwhat we offerâ, for example: multisport card, cinema tickets, language lessons, summer camps for kids, private health insurance etc.
Really, Iâm sure that currently in IT I would earn more in Poland, considering lower cost of living, especially after taking housing into account. Here with 20% I need to get the mortgage, I would probably buy a land, build a house and have no mortgage afterwards in Poland ;).
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Isnât this the biggest bullsh*t imaginable? Just give out the money instead of some dubious benefits. Everyone gets to choose and pay for what he actually needs.
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Hehe, thatâs another topic ;). I just wanted to point out the difference between job markets in Poland and Switzerland. Anyway, apart from all these additional things, they pay quite well, especially taking into consideration the costs of living.
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Yes, this is a non discussion. It really is much easier to be rich in Poland, even when earning half of what youâd earn in Switzerland. Then again, lets not get too locked into the money topic. Quality of life has many variables. There is no âone size fits all solutionâ.
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Fully agree, this is why Iâm still in Switzerland ;).
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Stereotypes, yes. But thereâs often some degree of truth behind them. And in case, Iâd say there is.
As much as I appreciate living here, itâs certainly a country I wouldnât (unconditionally) recommend to everyone.
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Whenever I hear horror stories and stereotypes about the coldness of the Swiss, I really canât relate, but I do live west of the Röstigraben⊠Sounds like a completely different world in the German-speaking side.
As a long-term expat I will say this⊠It is always harder, everywhere in the world, to make connections with true locals as they already have their social circles set up and stable. Most of my local friends in places Iâve lived have themselves lived abroad for some time which makes them more open to dynamicism in their social lives, I guess. Another factor is that making friends gets harder and takes longer as you get older. None of these things are specific to Switzerland.
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I might have been a bit harsh in my judgements about Swiss. I have lots of Swiss friends (mostly young, internstional-minded and from Zurich) and I enjoy living here in the end. But saying that I have to admit Iâve also heard lots of horror stories about 40-50 year old work colleges of my friends from Luzern and countryside surroundings. To put it short: they can be assholes, especially towards immigrants.
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For sure, there are tons of assholes here. But as @chca stressed, that is by no means specific to Switzerland. On the contrary, Iâd even argue that the amount of assholes in this country is significantly lower than in other countries. When you look what is going on in Germany, Hungary, Czech Republic, Poland, the Balkans, the US and many other countries, then the amount of assholes is definitely higher elsewhere.
I would say that there is a link between economy and xenophobia - the harsher the economic climate, the more people start to blame someone else for their misery.
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Tax paradise for pensioners in Portugal may be changing⊠They are considering introducing a 10% income tax for retirees. Up till now retirees enjoyed income-tax freedom for the first 10 years.
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I came across this article today, with some examples of moving to Germany for retirement.
- more affordable housing
- lower COL
- no Vermögenssteuer (although no mention of CGT in the article)
- no Eigenmietwert (this will make many homeowners pack their bags
) - higher income taxes due on AHV & Pension income
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Hello, this post seems old, but I didnât find any better one and Iâm not sure yet where it would belong best. Please let me know about similar threads and/or recent discussions.
Iâm starting to read again about cheap ways to retire early. I found this post interesting, but it talks mainly about France and Poland, 2 European countries. Iâm thinking about living for some time in very cheap locations, until my health will permit, then probably get back to EU to benefit at least from the free public health, if my finances wonât allow me for private health care.
I started dreaming of FIRE about 20 years ago. Imagining myself retiring around 40, travelling the world on a budget up to 1k USD. Now Iâm already past 40, and 1k USD /m doesnât seem that much but definitely there are still nice locations with great weather and nature, to live comfortably with that budget.
So yeah, nowadays Iâm leaning towards planning 1.5 - 2k /m as a safe base to retire for the rest of my life. Retirement pension (excluding Swiss 2nd pillar, which Iâd rather cash out) which I already earned, in all countries, will give me still below 1k. Iâm thinking about working at least just to get it up to 1k, so in 20 years Iâll need to top up only 1k
The survival kit of FIRE would be to stay away from wealth tax and capital gains tax or at least stay away of capital gain tax above 10%, which open up quite a lot of the world.
These days Iâve been researching about Latin America. I would love to hear from mustachian natives, if there are some, about living southern American continent as FI.
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I suggest Croatia (EU) as it has good quality of life and 0% capital gain tax if you hold stock for more than 2 years (10% tax on dividends). Any fellows that retired in Croatia?
1) Quality of life :
- Which cities do you like in particular?
Split is a beautiful Dalmatian city. Otherwise any place in Istria is good. - What are some nice places where youâd like to live if you like nature? Mountains? Sea?
Sea is 2 hours from any place. There are many mountains like Velebit with nice hikes. - What are the local languages? Are they easy to learn?
Croatian. Quite difficult to learn. - How easy is it to integrate the local culture?
Very easy since making friends is straightforward. - Is the country generally safe?
Very safe. Girls can walk alone in 95% of placed in the middle of the night.
2) Cost of life :
You will need around 3000 EUR per month for very good lifestyle.
- Housing : How much if you rent? If you buy? Obviously it will vary a lot depending of the kind of area, but that is still a good indicator
High end rent is 1000-1500 EUR per month in the best parts of the country. - Cost of transportation
You need a car in Croatia as the public transportation is not that good. - How many years of expenses would be covered by 1M CHF? (this is an arbitrary number, but that will give a point of reference for everybody)
I leave this calculation to the experienced members of the forum. Without any gain on the assets, one could like around 23 years considering the cost.
3) Taxes and Investments
- How are taxed capital gains?
0% if you hold stocks for more than 2 years. Stock options are taxed 20% plus city surtax.
4) Climate
- What to expect form the weather if one wanted to move here
Very good Mediterranean climate.
5) What happens if i am really sick and need an operation at the hospital
The health system is not the best in Croatia, but the cost of private insurance will be very low. I think the health system is the only downside on retiring in Croatia.
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