“Maybe I could just try to reduce the contribution to minimum only?” sounds like the bargaining stage.
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Food for thought: here’s what was my final straw in the end of 2023 and I decided to quit this racket: VT did 10% or so in the year and my own supposedly diversified 3A ETFs did 1% AND my surrender value was below what I’d paid in.
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If it is a scam, I think it is better to cut your losses and invest the money elsewhere where you can try to then grow it.
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“Maybe I could just try to reduce the contribution to minimum only?” sounds like the bargaining stage.
Yes true, because 40% loss will we a five figures digit for the 3a. I have almost 40K in it.
I was wondering if reducing the contribution to the minimum and let it live it’s life and to invest the delta into a different 3a could be an option to limit the impact. But I am starting to understand that it might not.
Yup. Investing in some popular ETFs in 2023 and 2024 could already have given 50% gains.
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Ask them for a transparent cost overview where you will see what it cost you to get in (what kick-backs they paid to the sales guy, what they charged you to get invested), to maintain (management fee for securities, their admin fee for your insurance, etc.) and to exit the investment. They might try to stonewall you. Also check the performance of the securities they invested in for you. Most likely it will be far away from any sensible market benchmarks.
Unfortunately, the Swiss politicians are not in favor of extending the MiFID regulation (cost transparency and customer protection) for securities to the insurance industry.
Maybe the Insurance Ombudsman can support.
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Don’t put too many hopes there. After all, no court has ever ruled this rip-off as illegal 
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Thank you all for your replies.
@dom.swiss I am checking Oubudsman, but same as Gaijin, I suspect that it will not help much. I will likely be told that I signed the contract and that I had to prove due diligence.
I am starting to gather all the relevant details.
For now, since I am understanding that we signed for:
- 4 life insurance contracts,
is the statement below correct? - Contract 1 Pillar 2b: ~2K a month → premium fees could be around 200-400 francs
- Contract 2 Pillar 2b: ~3K a month → premium fees could be around 300-600 francs
- Contract 3 Pillar 3a: ~600 a month → premium fees could be around 60-120 francs
- Contract 3 Pillar 3a: ~600 a month → premium fees could be around 60-120 francs
The ranges above I am using are not my contracts, but what I found after a search - 10-20% would go in premium fees and remaining going towards investment in various funds. I still have to know the exact figures in my case.
So a rough estimate would be that:
- we pay - all included - around 6000 francs a month
Out of these 6000: - between 600 to 1200 francs would go the premium fees for the Life insurance
- between 4800 to 5400 francs would go to toward the investment funds.
Then, from the surrender value, they will deduct additional fees for stopping the policy prematurely.
Is that the correct logic? Thank you again.
Edit: I see for one of the policies:
Your savings Total balance on 08.01.2025 before deductions upon surrender: CHF ~20.5
- I invested 24K over the year
Is this calculation exact:
→ 24K-3.5=20.5
→ meaning: I really invested 20.5K and 3.5 are gone in Life Insurance premium?
=> 14%?
We just got the surrender value for the Pillar 3a of my wife (1st year completed):
+7K contributed, the surrender value will be +4K, meaning the fees will be 30%
I am starting to understand the magnitude of the impact on my side, since I transferred almost 40K last year on this Pillar 3a. If the same calculation is being applied, I would lose 10K+ on my 3a.
My 3b, with 20K of Total balance at the moment, I would lose 7K, again if the same calculation applies.
Total on my side: 20K
I would have to add the 3.5K mentioned above, it would make a total of almost 25K lost in 1 year.
On my wife’s side, the figures could be similar.
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I would be surprised if your previously contributed 3A at other places is also reduced? I would have thought it’s only about new contributions once you have the contract, but I might be wrong.
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Those numbers hurt! I’m sorry you are in this position - it’s a shame such practices are legal in CH. It’s a scam and rip-off. 100% 
What I’m not sure about: The 40k contribution, were part of the contract as well? Or were they “voluntary” transferred? Maybe, there is a chance the cut on those 40k is not as hefty as for the rest / ongoing payments? But again, we’re talking scammers - expect the worst 
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I am not sure if part of previous contracts will be impacted the same way. Honestly now i am a bit expecting the worst.
Right now what i wrote aboveit is only guesses, the reality coukd be better or worst.
I am going outside to take some fresh air to clear the mind, i will post later more details about the structure.
Unless you’re still in the 14 days allowing cancellation of the contract, I would try to torture myself the least I can, ask for the transfer value of all my assets if I terminate the contract now if not done already and wait for official numbers instead of doing projections. If your premiums are due monthly, I’d make sure it is done swiftly so that you can cancel the policy before they’re due if that’s the course of action you choose to pursue (it would probably be mine).
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If it helps: the ‘loss’ of money you often read here on the forum and elsewhere (due to life insurance scams) is in comparison to a strategy where you invest the money in something inexpensive.
But if you take a step back and look at general population, many people will not invest at all (e.g. 3a on cash account with super low interest). Even if you take the ‘loss’ now, you’ll likely still be better off after X years than when you would have never invested in your whole life.
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I am dismayed that in the 16 years since I got rid of my 3b solution, nothing has changed from a regulatory point of view. This business model is parasitic. I wonder how this is even compatible with the S in ESG? Maybe public naming will help to put a bit of pressure on lawmakers and on the companies themselves. Most of them have other, less controversial business lines and therefore a reputation to lose.
Sales people
- Swiss Live Select (formerly AWD): Employees sell these products and get handsome commissions
- …
Insurance companies
- Swiss Life: offers unspecified product(s) to cover shortfalls in retirement savings
- Allianz: offers product(s), e.g. Freie Vorsorge 3b
- Axa: offers product(s), e.g. Vorsorgeplan SmartFlex
- Generali: offers products, e.g. Vorsorgeversicherung Scala or Performa
- Zürich Versicherung: offers product(s), e.g. Sparversicherung Vorsorge Premium
- …
Fund managers and custodians
- There are also the custodian bank for the funds of the above mentioned insurance companies
- Sometimes, the funds perform far worse than any benchmarks.
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FINMA requires more transparency for life insurances as part of the AVO revision that seems to have entered into force on September 1, 2024. However, I don’t know whether that significantly improves the situation or not. It would be interesting to see new life insurance policies based on the new regulation.
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I may not be understanding it right but it sounds to me that it applies only to the relationship between insurance companies and FINMA, in particular to allow for a better assessment of their solvability. As a disclaimer, I’ve read the text in French only.
It doesn’t seem to me to apply to the relationships of insurers with their clients, or at least, I haven’t seen myself a part that would compel insurers to be more transparent with their clients in regard to the structure of their products and/or the commissions earned by intermediaries.
I may, of course, be wrong and would appreciate being corrected.
FINMA issued “Rundschreiben 2024/2 Lebensversicherung” which is based on the new law and that includes information requirements between insurers and clients with regards to conversion values, as I understand it (e.g. “Vorvertragliche Informationspflicht zu Umwandlung und Rückkauf”). Among other things, it requires transparency on the calculation of the conversion values. On request, also deductions for acquisition costs must be revealed.
As already mentioned, I don’t know how much this will help in practice, if at all.
SRF also noted in their life insurance article:
Die Finanzmarktaufsicht Finma reguliert solche Versicherungsprodukte in Zukunft strenger. Ab 2025 müssen sämtliche Kosten aufgezeigt werden.
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Sadly “tax advisors” are more like final year Economics School student making a bit of money on the side or downright scammers.
What you need is a “fiduciary “ or fiduciaire (French) or a “Treuhand” (true or trusted hand in German)… preferably with a few years of existence.
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Thank you, i will remember.
Regarding the tax advisor, this contact is part of a well established tax and insurance company, not an independent one.