Another view on the problem. If your portfolio is bigger than 80k and your relationship with her is 100% trust, you can invest her money in VT. If she needs money and VT crash, you can lend her your money. If it goes up everyone is happy. If/when she pass away, you just inherit it.
Now the risk is all on your shoulders.
You can basically become her 2nd pillar or something like that if you prefer.
This actually sounds like a great idea and a win win in any scenario, but it does need total trust.
One option would be to use the highest-yield CHF-denominated medium-term note for around 80% of the capital, and invest the rest in a global stock index.
If she will be retiring in Italy, then simply holding CHF may already bring her a real return in euros, if history is anything to go by.
Personally, I wouldnât feel comfortable advising someone to invest everything in the stock market when the predefined term is just 10 years.
Assuming the stock market does perform well, the 20% invested in the global stock index will achieve a good return that will supplement the modest return earned from interest and the CHF/EUR exchange. In the worst-case scenario that the market stagnates or even falls between now and then, the downside would be pretty small.
This is another good option, assuming you can consistently afford to hedge any loss that could possibly be incurred. I do this for my kids and some risk-averse siblings.
Does it though?
It needs trust, but not total trust if you just make it a loan on paper (which Iâd do with such large sums even if its the closest/loved person on earth anyway; has nothing to do with lack of trust).
Not saying OP should do this because it increases risk for OP which might not what they want. But lets say hypothetically OP is thinking about adding some margin loan (e.g. 10% of 800k = 80k) to boost their own portfolio returns (& risk), it would make more sense to not take this loan from IBKR but then from the mother.
How are you handling this? You share the gains, or you are you give all the gains to them but would eat the losses yourself (like a true Samaritan ).
People can be funny, my mother legally cannot be evicted from her flat by me or my brother (or both of us) as she has both bare ownership and usufruct (yes, I had to google the English translation of the Greek word for it!) of it, yet it took her decades to reconcile with the idea of signing the flats she owns over to me and my brother as inheritors because âthat leaves her with no roof over her headâ. She only did it because I explained to her that it will save us from a massive tax bill later.
And FFS she wouldnât be evictedâŠwe are not animals and have a great relationship.
Another input. Already considered Vanguard LifeStrategy fonds 60/40 or 40/60?
Although she would not consider me responsible, I would not feel comfortable with this. As mentioned by others in related topics, one tends to be much more conservative when it comes to managing someone elseâs moneyâŠ
Thank you for the input anyway!
Unless youâre a professional asset manager in the finance industry ⊠Other Peopleâs Money (OPM) is then just a vehicle that allows you to extract fees for yourself.
How risk averse are we talking here?
A 40/60 Vanguard ⏠Lifestrategy etf may be interesting for her. Meaning 40% all world stocks / 60% ⏠hedged medium term bonds.
One-ticker, self-rebalancing & tax-efficient solution for 0.25% ter.
Either distributing or accumulating.
I use very conservative portfolios for them, so itâs more a case of nearly zero downside (or risk for me). The guarantee from me is just to make them feel comfortable with the idea of investing, since that fear of any kind of loss is the biggest hurdle. In the very unlikely scenario that there does end up being a small loss in spite of my cockroach strategy, I would be the true Samaritan and make up the loss. But I canât really imagine that happening. With time they start to understand the logic behind investing and short-term risk vs. long-term gains.
I think most of us here have missed the point. She is financially illiterate, she needs the money and she wonât be comfortable with anything that was listed or required a brokerage account.
In my view, there is a very simple solution: Have a VERY CLOSE view on her pension fund. If it was both solid and fair (aka conversion rate on extra mandatory)⊠take half of the 80k and put it (staggered over the years) in her pension pod. 40k should probably give her another 200 CHF per month of Pension. Yes, that is shocking low but it is at least a starting point.
With regard to the other 40k⊠I would leave 20k in a normal savings account (these kind of people want to be able to see the money). Just make sure it was denominated in CHF. If the funds were in EUR, put 50% CHF/50% EUR and DAMN MAKE SURE that you get an appropriate yield on the EUR.
The remaining 20%⊠if she somewhat trusted you. Put it in an Avadis 40/60 Fund, and give Avadis the instruction to pay her (starting immediately) an amount worth 5% as a monthly installment. Yes, that is only about CHF 100 per month and it may not last her forever. She will probably need your financial support in another 10 years, but at least⊠its an alternative to the Pension Fund with some Upside Potential. But only do this IF you are willing to cover any losses and just pile some money if we face a stock market crash.
First of all, thank you all for the inputs! As I said, this is my first post in here, and I truly appreciate all the ideas and opinions you all shared!
A couple of you mentioned Vanguard life strategy, which I did not know before.
I checked on Justetf the returns on the 20-80 (more conservative), and over the last 4years itâs negative. I wonder howâs that even possible, given that itâs not distributing. Do they not consider the coupons?
The 40-60 track record looks much better, but of course thereâs a significant component of equity (hence, volatility).
Could you recommend any medium term note in CHF? Or a saving account that can yield something interesting?
Are you looking in EUR or CHF? (also when interest rates went up, bond funds went down)
Short guide to CHF fixed income options has a link to most of the options. Keep in mind that given the current interest environment, a good yield is anything above 0%.
At this moment yield on fixed income in Switzerland is rather low. But itâs about 0.80% before tax for corporate bonds (after considering TER of 0.15%)
But a mix of X% CHCORP + Y% WRDUSY can be a good portfolio where she can slowly add money on monthly basis.
If global bonds are needed then following can be an option. Although I donât know if global bonds are really needed
VGGX + WRDUSY
Y could be 25% or 35%.
Vanguard life strategy is also good but I think the problem might be that income in Euros will get taxed and since Euro will devalue, the final yield in CHF might get impacted.
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The thing is that taking zero risk is also a big risk.
Yeah looks like they use long term bonds so interest rate moves will have quite a big impact.
The launch date of the funds was very unfortunate, right before the biggest bond drawdown in history. So the funds with high bond allocations look pretty bad.
This is very unlikely to repeat.
Backtest on roughly what you can expect (in USD)
https://testfol.io/?s=dZSLhpXVcug
Notable is the very low volatility and you see in the drawdown tab, how low 22/23 was conpared tonthe backtest history.