Removal of imputed rental value

Taxes
426

Is this “huge increase” a given? I felt this was a kind of “propaganda” from the “Keep the EmW” side, I mean, we’re in Switzerland, the car garage owner never offered to do my car repairs for a few bucks less, if I didn’t “need the invoice”?

Seriously asking, maybe my car repairs were not enough to bother, maybe we didn’t know/trust each other well enough, etc.

Those with experience with construction companies/painters/electricians/etc, do you think they will become more “creative” in their billing options?
Would they then only have a 60% job “officially” and work 100%? Up to the extreme of having no job at all and doing everything on the “black market” while getting welfare assitance?

427

In my personal view if things stay like that the “work on the black” will only increase. With manual labor workers this is the most accented because material costs is very small percentage on the overall work, so they can be flexible for huge discounts if paid cash.

Say you have 10k wall painting job, material is 1500 at best, the rest is labor. If we focus on what he could hide, 8500 he needs to pay 8% VAT and probably around 20% tax. You on the other hand could save say 20% as well if you pay the full 10k now and wait couple of years for reimbursement.

Now, both of you come to an agreement for discount of 25% if paid in cash. He gets the same money like before, you get the same as before, only the tax man is left short.

With bigger companies and bigger jobs how it happens is only part of the cost is on invoice the rest is in cash. Say you have a new roof, 120k job. The company issues you a 60k invoice, you give them another 30k in cash. You both save.

Another thing what is done, there is a cap on how much tax you can offset in a year, so what you can do with a friendly company, say you have a year of renovations, they issue you few invoices and spread them through 3 years, say you plan to start in 2025, but the company makes you the invoice for December 2024, June 2025 and January 2026, so you claim to the max in each tax year.

It all depends on how you ask, you have people who are not interested and want nothing to do without invoice, you have a lot of small independents who would save few francs that way.

The way I ask it, in whatever situation, they tell me it would cost this much, I don’t question the sum, but I ask immediately “and how much without an invoice”? My quick math in the head tells me that sum should be -20 to -30% depending on how much material is included.

I once bought a garage door from a huge international company, they had a demo door for sale, already very discounted, the measurements were a perfect fit for me, I tried to haggle, they wouldn’t budge I finally said OK, give it to me without VAT, I don’t need the invoice and they accepted

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428

Thanks a lot for such a detailed reply / sharing your interesting insights @rew342343 .

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429

I think the deeper issue may come from general contractors or intermediaries (so probably for bigger renovations). They know the subcontractors they work with well and it’s easier for them to have an understanding.

Some small contractors may try to undercut their competition by working on the black market but I’d guess that depends on the actual contractor (some will/do, some won’t/don’t).

It still seems a relevant point and, I think, an actual risk. I wish I had thought about it before the vote happened.

430

I don’t think you should advertise that on a public forum. We’re in Switzerland, not a third-world country.

The tax has to be paid somehow by someone, and we already are amongst the lowest in the world so c’mon, how egoistic can one be.

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431

I would bet on homeowners trying to bring back deductions within 5 to 10 years (but not EmW). HEV can’t get enough.

Small and medium construction companies will have tough choices to make. Everyone will want to renovate before 2028 but no one after 2028.

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432

Let’s not forget that a huge chunk of the housing supply is owned by real estate companies. This votation changes nothing for them. So at the end of the day, I would not expect a big impact on overall prices or the black market.

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433

So we’re discussing here the fact that people who inherited a large (real) estate have a better standard of living that people who didn’t. Wow. So surprising, so unfair…

On the other side, currently people buying their home with their hard-earned money have to pay more of Kita, just because.

Because they put a potentially large part of their savings in walls instead of not, and have a large debt, so they have to pay more kita and that is so fair!

Distortions?

434

Probably will regret falling for the bait.

In the current system, if they have debt it’s deducted from income. Seems pretty fair to mostly base subsidy based on how much disposable income people have (income - basic needs e.g. healthcare/housing), would also work to allow people to deduct rent from income like some cantons do.

435

Nah, no bait, let’s not start again.

Well I was more surprised people are debating the fact that people who inherit a home might have a better standard of living than people who don’t, all things being equal, and that’s described as a “distortion” that imputed rental value would adjust, and that would be fair. It is, if you have communism beliefs.

Then, all paid homes are not inherited real estate. And the one you paid may as well be your heirs’ once upon a time.

436

Well, this is also the unfortunate thing about black markets and corruption. In the end, they put honest businesses at a disadvantage and out-compete them so in the end, it drifts more and more towards black market and corruption.

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437

Well, it looks like this thread has degenerated into a kind that we don’t want. Let’s stop this discussion.

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