I’m having a meeting with ZKB next week, but I do own real estate in DE so I have some experience but this time it’s different.
I would like to ask from people here that are self-employed (either solo) or thought a GmbH (100% ownership), did you have issues with getting a loan from the bank because they can see your business as a risky income source.
Currently, I’m on AnoBag visa receiving my salary in USD which def does not work, so I’m thinking of setting up my own GmbH and process my own “swiss” salary in CHF. Then I would proceed to go and use that salary base to negotiate a morgage.
It’s tricky because I can increase or decrease my salary as I wish, also a risk is that my company will be completely new (no financial history - or maybe 6 months to a year).
You can’t simply choose to reclassify an activity as a business instead of one considered ANobAG unless the nature of your work changes significantly, for instance, by gaining more clients or reducing your economic dependence on a single one, to avoid being assessed as pseudo-independent by the compensation funds.
EDIT: I also noticed you’re a “true” ANobAG working for a U.S. employer. Were you able to find an insurance provider that offers the mandatory UVG accident insurance? The accident coverage included in standard Swiss health insurance isn’t sufficient to meet the legal requirement.
In my case, the Ersatzkasse UVG was no help at all. They kept insisting that I have my “employer” complete a form that’s essentially a copy of the one intended for EU/EFTA-based companies—with only the reference to the convention removed. It still includes questions that apply exclusively to so-called “fake” (EU/EFTA-based) ANobAGs, and even retains inappropriate statements like “The employer remains liable for the payment of contributions to Swiss social security institutions” which clearly shouldn’t appear on a form meant for non-EU/EFTA employers. Even the name of the file references the European Community Regulation.
To make matters more complicated, my U.S. “employer” isn’t technically my employer—they’re my client, as I work as a consultant. Despite this, the Ersatzkasse UVG couldn’t grasp the distinction, even though they’re supposed to be the final authority on the matter.
Yes, I have all proper documentation and insurances. AXA provides ANobAG specific accident insurance so I would suggest you contact them. Nobody likes AXA, but they do support this.
Maybe you missed few things in my question, but I would not “reclassify”. I would start a new GmbH, ask my employer to create a service agreement with the GmbH and employ myself as a regular swiss company employee.
There are pluses and minuses with this setup, biggest plus being that ANobAG is simple accounting and GmbH is a lot more work, but I’m used to running companies.
ANobAG as you know probably has the same fees, you pay the employer part of pension, the extra insurance, AHV prepayments etc. The big downside is also that you can’t deduct expenses like a business because you’re an employee, on the other side you can do that with GmbH before paying yourself a salary.
Banks normally want security. So a deposit and an income track record. For self-employed it can be difficult as banks are sceptical about the viability of the business so typically want to see a long history.
Just put yourself in their position, if you are going to lend someone a 7 figure sum, what would you want to have to be confident in making the loan.
I’m not convinced that setting up a GmbH changes much when it comes to potential pseudo-independence. As I understand it—based on cases like yours (and mine, unintentionally)—if you’re granted ANobAG status, your activity is treated as salaried. Creating a GmbH doesn’t necessarily change that, because Swiss authorities look at the economic reality of the work. If you maintain the same working conditions—such as the same number of clients, similar frequency, and distribution of work amongst clients—the GmbH structure won’t prevent the activity from being classified as disguised employment.
My main point is that, whether it’s for AHV or tax purposes, you usually don’t get to choose how a gainful activity is classified. While you sometimes see advice online suggesting that you can influence the classification by registering a certain way, in principle, the classification is based on substance over form. That said, it may be possible to shift your activity into a different classification by adjusting certain elements—some of which might even be relatively superficial—to better align with the criteria for independent work.
On a related note, regarding UVG accident insurance: would you be willing to share the contact information and the letter or email template you used to request a contract? I’ve already had three refusals from other insurers, and I’d rather not jeopardize my chances with AXA. If you’re not comfortable posting it here, maybe you could send it to me via PM? Thanks.
Corporations have legal personhood, so everything you say is wrong in that the “employer” turns into a “client” – and that is a frequent reclassification the government understands and actively favors.
With respect to getting a mortgage, banks look at the history/duration of a payment stream so if you pay yourself a salary from the GmbH, expect to require 12-24 months of flat if not growing payments.
Maybe I don’t understand the reclassification part, but I’m not trying to avoid any taxes or AHV payments. One would pay taxes and AHV in both cases, it’s just if you do it as a private person (Anobag, self-employed) or the GmbH does it (again you as the owner) on your behalf.
In short, I don’t care how they classify me, i still pay my taxes and social obligations.
What I care is which mode “looks better” in the eyes of the bank.
The further problem that I have is that I’m paid in USD, which is a currency risk for the bank. so having a CHF based salary from my own GmbH would look better.
I do have a meeting with the bank next week, I just wanted to better prepare, so thanks for the input everyone.
Never had issues getting a mortgage with a GmbH setup that pays out my own salary. They just wanted to see the last salary slip & tax declaration and treated this like I were employed regularly (which technically you are, it’s just that you also control the company).
On the other hand, when actually self-employed (i.e. not with your own GmBH), the bank needs proof of stable income from the last 3 years.
Kriterien der AHV für eine selbstständige Tätigkeit erfüllt: Mehrere Auftraggeber, Auftreten am Markt unter eigenem Namen, in unabhängiger Stellung, bereits getätigte Investitionen, auf eigene Rechnung und auf eigenes wirtschaftliches Risiko.
That’s the main issue, a company with a single client typically doesn’t fulfill this.
Sorry, shouldn’t have linked to that. But aren’t those properties valid for any company (not just Einzelfirma). Though I guess you’ll make sure that you don’t describe it this way when you create the company to avoid issues (e.g. make it super generic like consultancy).
(It’s also going to be a fairly different contract with your “employer”, I guess you’ll have to renew some fixed term contract regularly and make it task based delivery?)
(you’re paying both employer and employee contributions and they don’t really care beyond that)
I still think the company needs to be setup in a way that makes it sound like you have more than one client to work (but that should be easy even if in practice you start with just one).
Just from my personal experience: I own a GmbH since 2016 and have been self-employed for 14 years in total.
When we got a mortgage, the bank did not even bother to use my income for calculating the usual values.
I guess you will have to look at this on a case by case basis with your bank or a specialised mortgage broker.
It depends a bit on the situation. When I renewed previously, they didn’t check anything. On the most recent renewal they checked everything again because there was some internal edict to ensure all paperwork and checks in order even though there should be less concern with the renewal (due to more principal paid off, lower interest rates, higher valuation etc.)
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