Pillar 3a and staggered Withdrawal

Banks, Insurances & Third Pillar
1

In regards to an optimal staggered withdrawal upon retirement, you are supposed to spread your pillar 3a contributions over multiple portfolios to allow for more control over the impact the taxation will have. VIAC, for example, offers max. five virtual portfolios to do that.

After what initial deposit to these five portfolios should I consider moving on to another provider and start filling up new portfolios there? If there are no annual fees other than a fairly identical TER, I don’t see why I should stick with “only” five portfolios and not have my pillar 3a essentially spread over an infinite amount of portfolios from different providers? Or am I overthinking this?

2

If you withdraw multiple 3a in the same year, they add the ammount for the taxes.

3

Check with your canton, because some of them will limit the number of different withdrawal from different portfolio, as this could be qualify as tax avoidance.

In Vaud, the maximum is 2.

In any case, 5 is the maximum for fiscal optimisation, because you can start to withdraw only 5 years before the retirement. If you withdraw two portfolios the same year, as @REandSTOCK said the amounts will be added.

4

I heard that even in Vaud, you can have 5 without problem. Of course you’d better avoid to withdraw one on the 20th december and the next on the 3rd january.

5

I was aware that the total amount withdrawn would be added together, but did not know of the limit, thank you!

6

You could potentially withdraw more than 5 if you use one for other reasons like property, own company etc.

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7

Okay, so some cantons seem to have a more limited ruling, but generally I should not be legally bound to withdraw my pillar 3a from max. 5 accounts, right? I could have 10 accounts and withdraw annually into my pensioned years, theoretically?

(10 portfolios, taking into account you can start the withdrawal 5 years ahead and five years into the pension)

8

You can’t withdraw 5 years into pension if you stopped working. Only up to the pension age. So there is no point in having more than 5 accounts.

9

Allianz says:

Normally, pillar 3a retirement savings may be paid out no earlier than five years before and no later than five years after the normal retirement age.

https://www.allianz.ch/de/privatkunden/ratgeber/vorsorge/gebundene-vorsorge-3a.html

10

…if you keep working till 70.

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11

okay, that clarifies it!

12

For tax purposes, it is better to spread out the withdrawal of pension funds. I tried to sketch out what an staggered withdrawal srategy could look like, but had some questions:

Age
49 Pillar2 household purchase#3
54 Pillar2 household purchase#2
59 Pillar2 household purchase#1
60 Pillar3a #1
61 Pillar3a #2
62 Pillar3a #3
63 Pillar3a #4
64 Pillar3a #5
65 Pillar2 #1
66 Pillar2 #2
67 Pillar2 #3
68 Pillar2 #4

When is earliest you can withdraw Pillar 3 under normally (not for house purchase etc.?) is it at 60 or 61?

For house purchase, I think you can withdraw once per 5 years (and subject to restrictions after a certain ages). At least for Pillar 3a, I’m not sure if the rules are exactly the same for Pillar 2.

Also, Not sure if 59 is too late to do the early withdrawal for home purchase and you need to do it by 58 (in which case all those payments need to be shifted a year earlier).

13

For each person. If you convince your wife to withdraw her 3a in-between your withdrawals, and if there is something to withdraw, you can squeeze some more every 2-3 years.

These are not exactly restrictions, but rather an opposite of it. It’s when you are allowed to withdraw 3a anyway, no need to go for a special case.

14

With the latest AHV reform, you can no longer defer withdrawal of pillar 2 vested benefits beyond the ordinary retirement age, unless you’re also working beyond 65. I.e., the rules will match the pillar 3a withdrawal rules from 2024 onwards.

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15

So it now has to be cashed out at 65? I guess that was the ‘important changes from 1.1.24’ that finpension referred to.

16

Yes, between 60 and 65 if you’re not working beyond 65. It makes sense that the rules for pillars 2 and 3a are the same.

17

My understanding there is (was?) a difference between Pillar 2 and Pillar 2 Vested Benefits (the Pillar 2 requires you to be in continued employement to defer benefits, but the VB doesn’t (didn’t?) have this requirement).

18

I was thinking of the rule that after a certain age (50?) you could only withdraw half the VB to find home purchases.

19

Yes, this is correct right now but with the AHV reform, withdrawal from vested benefits will have the same requirement.

20

Regarding staggered withdrawal. If I understand it correctly, ideally one should go for 5 portfolios that each will have a similar total amount so one can withdraw 5 years prior to the official retirement age of 65 for men atm. I think I read as a rule of thumb people recommend opening a new portfolio once they reach 50k. Does it make a difference if one portfolio consists of different stocks or is there generally some recommendation on how to approach this? E.g., One portfolio for a VT replicate, one for Ex-US only, etc? I have only one portfolio now at ca. 10k, so I wonder if it makes any difference opening another portfolio or adding to the current one. Just want to make sure I do not miss something early on and run into some restrictions down the road.