PF e-trading >25k vs Degiro (buy and hold)

Investing / Funding & Currency conversions
#1

Hi there i’ve my PF conto and since a year or two they added fees 5chf/mo but with and e-trading of >25k that’s free. but it costs 90chf for the e-trading, doing some math:
only conto: 5chf * 12 = 60chf
conto + trading: 0 + 90chf = 90chf
conto + degiro: 60chf + 0 = 60chf

so for 30chf more i can have an e-trading directly in PF

now what’s not clear for me, I’m newbie, which are the other hidden costs? Why everyone is in favour of IB or Degiro?

Just to give the idea how i’m going to invest: VWRL + SPI (or SPI Extra) in a buy and hold manner.

thanks

#2

How many trades / which amount per year?

#3

not sure but i think something around 4 trades around 20-30k per year

#4

Ok. So if 4x 6000: PF will cost 150.- (plus stamp). VWRL dividend is paid in $. So you will have extra forex costs or want to buy smth in $ (VWRA for ex).

https://www.moneyland.ch/en/postfinance/online-trading/online-trading

Ps: i do not think it is a very bad deal btw. You have a private conto, everything in CH etc. Unless you are looking for the most efficient way (VT via IBKR), i think VWRL via PF is a very good solution.

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#5

Thanks :blush:
Can you tell me the same on degiro ?

#6

I don’t use degiro and never did the math. Many posts about it here already though.

The way i see it is if you do buy & hold (few transactions, hold very long), the transaction costs are not important. What you want is a low TER, best tax situation and if necessary lowest forex costs, as all of that will skyrocket when you have more money invested.

Compounding will work for you:

https://www.investor.gov/financial-tools-calculators/calculators/compound-interest-calculator

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#7

I have Pf & IB for diversification reasons & to trade some US stocks & so I trade on both and have a good idea of how they compare. For you, it’s really not a huge extra cost to use Pf, like yakari already explained. And for keeping it simple I would stick with Pf at the moment.
You lose about 1.5% of your dividends which you receive in USD when you exchange that to CHF.
Also VWRL is Irish based and loses 15% of US dividends which you can’t reclaim. VT doesn’t have this “problem”.
Keep in mind the Fr 90 annual fee paid for Pf e-trading is a trading credit p.a., so kind of not a fee at all.

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#8

thepoorswiss did a blog post about this topic and compared the different broker regarding some use cases. Have a look at it:

Cheerio

#9

He forgets to mention that the “custody fee” at IBKR of 10USD gets decreased by the transaction fees incurred; which I believe is relevant.

If you e.g. trade once per month and buy 1 ETF in USD, your custody fee goes to 10 - 2 (forex) - 0.33 (transaction) = 7.67 USD.
And so on.

#10

Good point. There is a post in which he only compares Degiro and IB and there it is mentioned:

The conclusion of both blog posts is, go with IB if you are a Swiss investor and reach the 100k in a reasonable amount of time.

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