PF e-trading >25k vs Degiro (buy and hold)

Hi there i’ve my PF conto and since a year or two they added fees 5chf/mo but with and e-trading of >25k that’s free. but it costs 90chf for the e-trading, doing some math:
only conto: 5chf * 12 = 60chf
conto + trading: 0 + 90chf = 90chf
conto + degiro: 60chf + 0 = 60chf

so for 30chf more i can have an e-trading directly in PF

now what’s not clear for me, I’m newbie, which are the other hidden costs? Why everyone is in favour of IB or Degiro?

Just to give the idea how i’m going to invest: VWRL + SPI (or SPI Extra) in a buy and hold manner.


How many trades / which amount per year?

not sure but i think something around 4 trades around 20-30k per year

Ok. So if 4x 6000: PF will cost 150.- (plus stamp). VWRL dividend is paid in $. So you will have extra forex costs or want to buy smth in $ (VWRA for ex).

Ps: i do not think it is a very bad deal btw. You have a private conto, everything in CH etc. Unless you are looking for the most efficient way (VT via IBKR), i think VWRL via PF is a very good solution.

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Thanks :blush:
Can you tell me the same on degiro ?

I don’t use degiro and never did the math. Many posts about it here already though.

The way i see it is if you do buy & hold (few transactions, hold very long), the transaction costs are not important. What you want is a low TER, best tax situation and if necessary lowest forex costs, as all of that will skyrocket when you have more money invested.

Compounding will work for you:

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I have Pf & IB for diversification reasons & to trade some US stocks & so I trade on both and have a good idea of how they compare. For you, it’s really not a huge extra cost to use Pf, like yakari already explained. And for keeping it simple I would stick with Pf at the moment.
You lose about 1.5% of your dividends which you receive in USD when you exchange that to CHF.
Also VWRL is Irish based and loses 15% of US dividends which you can’t reclaim. VT doesn’t have this “problem”.
Keep in mind the Fr 90 annual fee paid for Pf e-trading is a trading credit p.a., so kind of not a fee at all.

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thepoorswiss did a blog post about this topic and compared the different broker regarding some use cases. Have a look at it:


He forgets to mention that the “custody fee” at IBKR of 10USD gets decreased by the transaction fees incurred; which I believe is relevant.

If you e.g. trade once per month and buy 1 ETF in USD, your custody fee goes to 10 - 2 (forex) - 0.33 (transaction) = 7.67 USD.
And so on.

Good point. There is a post in which he only compares Degiro and IB and there it is mentioned:

The conclusion of both blog posts is, go with IB if you are a Swiss investor and reach the 100k in a reasonable amount of time.

Quick question about IB do they have an ETF saving plan?

No, afaik you have to enter your trade orders manually every time…but frankly once you get used to the interface it’s a quick and easy job.

You could also do one single trade with PF in order to spend your 90 CHF credit by buying VT or VWRL and do yours monthly investment with IBKR. Like this you will have 2 brokers.

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I don’t want to open an new thread for my question: Does anybody have any experience with Captrader ( Currently I trade with two Degiro accounts (one Swiss, one German, for trades in CHF and EUR respectively) but once again I realized that Degiro limits their products: Just at the beginning of this year I last time bought SWX:ZGLD and SWX:ZSIL, but it seems that they don’t allow to buy these products anymore.
It is not the first time that something like this happens. The reasons that for can be multiples, the customer support always only sends a generaly reply. Given this I really get tired of Degiro, and I think about changing some products to Captrader. I want to keep trading with Degiro the free ETFs since I buy them monthly. But all the other products (I only buy shares and ETFs), also such ones with high dividends I want to trade on another platform. Captrader seems to be the cheapest option that offers a wide choice. The advantage is also that they do not charge if you don’t trade and have a minimum of 2000 USD or EUR invested (most products I would just buy and hold there). IBKR is no option for me at the moment since I have and will not reach very soon the 100000 USD threshold.
So, can somebody recommend Captrader or advise against it?

You can’t trade VT on PF though, right?

One can trade VT ETF on PF, like one can trade any other US stock in USD on PF.

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