Both links are of course referal links. I think you should disclose that.
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Yup, it’s written there. The difference with this and classic “ads” is that I actually tested both of those and am happy to recommend. Plus, the person using those links actually gets a nice bonus, as opposed to registering eg via google.
Are these returns you’re referring to in CHF? I guess these investments are comparable to bonds of such countries as Ukraine, Turkey, Argentina. Ukraine 1Y bond has a yield of 20% with an inflation of 9%, so a return of 11%. I don’t know if I would be comfortable to lend money to entities with the credibility of Ukraine. I think these websites are all cool and deliver constant return until a major crisis, at which point all the debtors stop paying at once and you lose most of which you invested.
Lending money to some scattered and not really well recognized entities seems like a huge risk. What are you gonna do if they don’t pay back?
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Good question. With typical P2P lending, where you’re basically hoping the loan gets bought back and the platform provider itself doesn’t go bankrupt. On the other hand, for those type of loans (institutional investments such as real estate), there’s backing in the actual existing development (income generating apartments, power plant, refinery), plus it’s investments providing capital to companies and not individuals, who are less predictable. The other thing is that I treat it as a way to diversify the portfolio, not replace stocks, so percent wise, it’s below 5% of total investments.
This is what they want you to believe, but you as an investor have absolutely no claim against the collateral. You are nowhere in the land registers for real estate loans and you are not a creditor (the platform is). If thing go wrong, you are last on the list to get money back.
This is actually the third sentence you can read on the Mintos title page "Investing your money puts your capital at risk and investors are not protected by any financial compensation scheme. "
I consider Mintos legit, I recognize some of the loan originators if at least by name. This adds a layer security and allows me more room to research who am I giving my money to, but all things considered this is still a high risk investment.
You did mention Advanon, see here:
https://insideparadeplatz.ch/2018/08/15/vorzeige-fintech-mit-promis-total-crash/
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Thanks for the heads up about Advanon, wasn’t aware of this. I didn’t test it and didn’t put it on my shortlist either - one of the reasons being the capital requirement, second one was lack of recommendations from fellow investors who actually tried it out.
You’re talking about this being a higher risk investment, this is true. At the same time, you have plenty of small and medium cap companies listed e.g. on the US stock market, which may have a great future ahead of them (bio tech, fin tech, retail etc.), but they can also go bust and even get de-listed. In such cases, the investors can lose most or all of their investment, without any buyback options or recourse.
In the end, at times, investing smaller amounts in “up and coming” businesses may render great yields in the medium term. All in moderation, I’d say.
Great that you mentioned that. If you own a broad market ETF, such as VT, the megacap companies constitute 1% of it, while the mid and small caps are significantly below <0.1%.
I do invest in individual stocks, but by rule I’m not putting more than 1% of my total portfolio value in any single company. Then again, my expectations from individual stocks are way higher than 10% annually …
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and
for me just dont go together, i dont believe that. either returns are brushed up or risk is understated. no free lunch for me
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The returns are real, I know for a fact, but the risk is understated. Any issues in this market as of now have been relatively small and contained. This is a fast growing market and as long as it keeps growing, the ball will roll. A point of market saturation is still quite far ahead, IMHO, but it will come.
The most ordertly outcome imaginable is a gradually falling average yield. The worst outcome is a wave of bankrupcies with 100% capital loss to investors with highest yielding originators (not loans - the loan is just a wrapper, most of the P2P world funds the loan originators not the loans directly).
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Yep, Advanon had some issues with fraud. This can and does happen. See SpringBoard Capital in Singapore, another P2P lending platform. They had same issue, just much larger scale. In the end it’s business and things can go wrong. But the chance that you loose money I would consider pretty low. You have collateral, it’s just not 100% ensured as a court my decide otherwise, as it happend to a platform in UK.
But Advanon does not have 50k minimum investment. 50k is only needed for autoinvest function.
Be aware that that money rightfully belongs to them when they are 18. So if you happen to have a bad relationship with your kids that money might be gone.
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In money market, Postfinance offers term deposits from 1 to 12 month starting at 100kCHF or equivalent in various currencies
Interest rates are on demand so I can’t comment on that but it seems worth mentioning.
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I think medium-term notes (Kassenobligationen/Obligations de Caisse) are a good option. My expectation is that Swiss savings account interest rates will only continue going down in the coming years, so locking in at least some interest for a fixed term is a good option for low-risk investments.
You can compare Swiss medium-term notes here:
https://www.moneyland.ch/en/medium-term-notes-comparison
Banks generally require you to open custody accounts for their medium-term notes. Most don’t charge custody fees but some do. The comparison accounts for those costs.
Swiss medium-term notes benefit from the same depositor protection as bank accounts.
If you are more happy-go-lucky, you could open a non-resident account in South Africa. Great interest if you hold money in a ZAR saving account (5%-10%). But the rand hasn’t exactly been a high-flyer in relation to the franc and SA on the whole still hasn’t recovered its credit ratings as far as I know.
Youth savings accounts are definitely the way to go. Banks subsidize the interest rates here as a marketing gag to onboard customers, so the rates don’t change often. I have 5 kids so divide savings between 5 Credit Suisse Viva/Viva Kids accounts. Viva kids pays 5% on the first 1000 francs and 1% on the next 24,000 francs. Viva pays 1% on the first 25k. You have to have a private account at Credit Suisse in order to open kids accounts, which is expensive but worth it in my case. This doesn’t apply to youth accounts - just the higher-interest accounts for kids up to age 12. You can manage all accounts and transfer between them with online banking. If you don’t have enough kids to make a CS checking account worth it, use the best offer in the moneyland comparison.
I haven’t used their medium-term notes, but here is my observation:
Cembra Money Bank is primarily a lender and credit card issuer, so their activities and therefore risk are less diversified. On the positive side, this means they are the least affected by the SNB’s negative interest rates because they have virtually no assets under management so they do not need a large reserve. They have a solid revenue base of credit card fees to supplement their loans business.
As I mentioned earlier, medium-term notes are covered by the Esisuisse deposit protection scheme, so you have that backup. The financial figures for Cembra Money Bank are good. Personally I would say it’s a safe investment.
0.50% on 5 years?
How is that “good”?
Or am I missing something. 
Compared to bonds and savings accounts… For 8 years it’s 0.8%, which is almost 1% basically risk free. Could be a decent backbone for your safe portfolio allocation.
So you are willing to commit funds for 8 years at this super low rate… Not really a “non-longterm” horizon…
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