Non-longterm-investments


#21

Both links are of course referal links. I think you should disclose that.


#22

Yup, it’s written there. The difference with this and classic “ads” is that I actually tested both of those and am happy to recommend. Plus, the person using those links actually gets a nice bonus, as opposed to registering eg via google.


#23

Are these returns you’re referring to in CHF? I guess these investments are comparable to bonds of such countries as Ukraine, Turkey, Argentina. Ukraine 1Y bond has a yield of 20% with an inflation of 9%, so a return of 11%. I don’t know if I would be comfortable to lend money to entities with the credibility of Ukraine. I think these websites are all cool and deliver constant return until a major crisis, at which point all the debtors stop paying at once and you lose most of which you invested.

Lending money to some scattered and not really well recognized entities seems like a huge risk. What are you gonna do if they don’t pay back?


#24

Good question. With typical P2P lending, where you’re basically hoping the loan gets bought back and the platform provider itself doesn’t go bankrupt. On the other hand, for those type of loans (institutional investments such as real estate), there’s backing in the actual existing development (income generating apartments, power plant, refinery), plus it’s investments providing capital to companies and not individuals, who are less predictable. The other thing is that I treat it as a way to diversify the portfolio, not replace stocks, so percent wise, it’s below 5% of total investments.


#25

This is what they want you to believe, but you as an investor have absolutely no claim against the collateral. You are nowhere in the land registers for real estate loans and you are not a creditor (the platform is). If thing go wrong, you are last on the list to get money back.

This is actually the third sentence you can read on the Mintos title page "Investing your money puts your capital at risk and investors are not protected by any financial compensation scheme. "
I consider Mintos legit, I recognize some of the loan originators if at least by name. This adds a layer security and allows me more room to research who am I giving my money to, but all things considered this is still a high risk investment.

You did mention Advanon, see here:


#26

Thanks for the heads up about Advanon, wasn’t aware of this. I didn’t test it and didn’t put it on my shortlist either - one of the reasons being the capital requirement, second one was lack of recommendations from fellow investors who actually tried it out.

You’re talking about this being a higher risk investment, this is true. At the same time, you have plenty of small and medium cap companies listed e.g. on the US stock market, which may have a great future ahead of them (bio tech, fin tech, retail etc.), but they can also go bust and even get de-listed. In such cases, the investors can lose most or all of their investment, without any buyback options or recourse.
In the end, at times, investing smaller amounts in “up and coming” businesses may render great yields in the medium term. All in moderation, I’d say.


#27

Great that you mentioned that. If you own a broad market ETF, such as VT, the megacap companies constitute 1% of it, while the mid and small caps are significantly below <0.1%.

I do invest in individual stocks, but by rule I’m not putting more than 1% of my total portfolio value in any single company. Then again, my expectations from individual stocks are way higher than 10% annually …


#28

and

for me just dont go together, i dont believe that. either returns are brushed up or risk is understated. no free lunch for me


#29

The returns are real, I know for a fact, but the risk is understated. Any issues in this market as of now have been relatively small and contained. This is a fast growing market and as long as it keeps growing, the ball will roll. A point of market saturation is still quite far ahead, IMHO, but it will come.

The most ordertly outcome imaginable is a gradually falling average yield. The worst outcome is a wave of bankrupcies with 100% capital loss to investors with highest yielding originators (not loans - the loan is just a wrapper, most of the P2P world funds the loan originators not the loans directly).


#30

Yep, Advanon had some issues with fraud. This can and does happen. See SpringBoard Capital in Singapore, another P2P lending platform. They had same issue, just much larger scale. In the end it’s business and things can go wrong. But the chance that you loose money I would consider pretty low. You have collateral, it’s just not 100% ensured as a court my decide otherwise, as it happend to a platform in UK.

But Advanon does not have 50k minimum investment. 50k is only needed for autoinvest function.


#31

Be aware that that money rightfully belongs to them when they are 18. So if you happen to have a bad relationship with your kids that money might be gone.