I am in the process of building a house, via a general contractor (if we ever get the building permit ).
We’re in the phase where we need to chose the kitchen and bathrooms (mostly so they can plan where to put water/electricity/…), and the GC has a few suppliers for those.
So we’ve met them, and there are some things I feel I am missing.
Like, we met with bathroom suppliers, and they only provide the equipment itself, but they don’t do any plans/installation.
Some prices seem “fair”, like the toilets themselves, sinks, faucets …, but a few things seem totally out of this world: close to 1.5k for the basic wall cabinet you find in every rental (over 2k for the double one), 2k for a simple under the sink cabinet (and 4k for a double).
I can find some nicer stuff online for close to a tenth of the price.
Given that they only seem to provide the equipment (so ordering, storing, delivering on time and after-sale service?), I don’t understand the markup. Also I would have expected it to be similar on all items?
So our current plan is to order everything but the cabinets via the supplier, which would slash the overall price by two. Then we just need to provide what we want to the guys actually doing the installation when it’s time. At worst, there’s no plumbing involved, installing a couple of cabinets is certainly not the end of the world if that saves us 10k.
It sounds like a massive potential saving with minimal risk and time. If I read the GC contract correctly, there’s a 15% markup if we provide stuff ourselves.
Anything I might be missing, any related experience?
It’s Switzerland. They charge a lot because people are price insensitive.
With the cabinets, if there are lights, you might have some electrical wiring to do, but otherwise, yes, of course you will save a lot of money if you buy things from cheaper online shops and do the installation yourself.
That’s thing though, the quoted prices don’t even include installation.
And the price insensitivity should apply equally to the porcelain and plumbings as to the cabinets, shouldn’t it?
It often does. I once made the mistake of asking a plumber to replace a tap without confirming the price. 1500 for a tap (w/o installation) that I could have bought from Ikea for 60 Fr.
I am certain the GC will get a kick back or commission
Did you buy the property as a “promotion”? Probably the GC has counted on this when they calculated the sale price
We once renovated a bathroom and the plumber we contacted would only use one supplier for the bathroom furniture, the quote for the bathroom was 20k. We did it with another plumber who let us choose the furniture and it cost 1/3 of the price
No, we had the land and found a GC to build (well, it’s more complicated than that, but that’s what it boils down to at the end of the day).
It’s certainly possible they have kickbacks, but I am not so sure. Sounds more like “we generally push people towards you, and they get a 15% discount”.
There’s a budget defined, and if we don’t use it all, it simply reduces the final price by that much.
First bathroom I ever renovated I insisted on having Villeroy & Boch Legato series, two sinks, fitting large cabinet, backlit mirror, etc. - that can really tear you a new one
Compared to that, Duravit Ketho looks no worse and is a tad cheaper.
We are currently renovating and I found the business model of these bathroom suppliers / distributers extremely annoying.
You visit the fancy showrooms of one of those distributors (we went to Sabag, Richner and Sanitas Troesch). They show you all the nice things they have, often without pricetags. You pick faucets you like, only to get told that if you want it in black, its 300.- extra each. After a week or two you’ll get their offer, which only has gross prices. Then your local plumber takes this list, offers you some additional discount on the chosen items (out of his margin, which is apparently >30%) and installs it. Just very in intransparent and way to many intermediaries taking a nice fat markup.
And I agree, bathroom cabinets and mirrors are absurdly expensive. Unfortunately, we liked the fancy ones from Froidevaux, so 3.5k for the vanity and 2.5k for mirror cabinets (Schneider)…
I think it is a bit like a wedding, you’re going to spend a ridiculous amount of money so the odd 3.5k here for a vanity or 2.5k for a cabinet just gets hidden amoung the costs.
the only difference is that the wedding is over after a day, but you’ll be looking at the vanity or mirror for 20+ years. We could have chosen cheaper stuff, but I think it would piss me off every time when I look at poor design.
It is the same for almost every building material. Wood, concret, tiles, electric cable…
The construction company always gets its cut. (same as eg car mechanic).
I am lucky having a fried who is project manager in construction. He organized me a few deals where I was billed directly from the distributor, at the rate he would have billed the construction company my friend worked. Huge saving potential.
This shows also why in Switzerland it is still possible for a craftsman to finance a house - due to their professional connections they build way cheaper than other persons
It’s kind of a duopoly of the big players with their fancy showrooms. Typically, the craftsmen get a huge discount, part of which they may or may not pass along.
I also had the impression that the furniture was a poor deal in particular. Maybe the big brands just sell that product line on top, to leverage their brand reputation for basins or toilets.
The options eventually depend on your contract and setup. If you hired the contractor to build for you, I guess there’s more flexibility. If you buy per plan, they often refuse other craftsmen, or self-sourced items, already per contract.
Some works could be taken out completely and awarded by you, but I wouldn’t recommend it for sanitary installation in general.
If you are looking for something specific on the cabinets, you might consider also asking a carpenter for a quote.
Yes, I have a bit more flexibility. I’ll re-read the contract in details again, but we’ve asked before and self-sourced is fine.
Some works could be taken out completely and awarded by you, but I wouldn’t recommend it for sanitary installation in general.
Agreed, this part is complex and not that expensive. That’s why I was a bit surprised to begin with. I would have expected the markup to be on the hard to avoid parts, not on the easy to install ones.
Looks like I will stick to the original plan: get everything except the cabinets and small items (150 for the toilet paper holder ) via the supplier.
The rest I will source myself.
Glad that you got useful inputs and that you have a plan. I am in a similar scenario with renovations. I have arrived at similar conclusions to those commented here: there is little clarity as to where some costs come from, especially on installation.
Happy to open a new thread or be redirected to another thread but I have a question about competition or comparing multiple offers. How big is the difference between installation companies? The cost of supplies is clearer, one sees the prices for the cabinets, in your case. But for the installation, have people saved much by shopping around? 10% maybe, is my experience.
And for those close to borders, have you considered or has anybody hired a German, French or Italian company to come over to a Swiss property and work here?
I guess my situation is a bit different as it’s a new construction, so the GC handles the subcontractors/installation. And the bathrooms/kitchen is just a small part of it.
Whilst I have clarity on the cost of the supplies, I have no idea about the installation costs. So I haven’t looked into it further.
I think it makes more sense for a renovation which will be more targeted, and has fewer “moving parts” that need to be synchronised at the same time.
Either I’ll let the contractors handle it, or do it myself for the simple things. What I need to check now is if I can simply give my own sourced supplies to the people doing the installation. That would be ideal.
I think labor you need to declare officially and pay same salary as for locals. Even if they would come for single day to install faucet.
Materials yes. Heard stories that people pay 3x cheaper considering import taxes, than buying locally.
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) via the supplier.