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@NicoFireDoc, I love your focus! So what is your after-FIRE life going to look like?

Well, to be honest it feels like I’ve been running like a hamster non-stop for the last 10 years.

I’m just dying to finally stop and smell the roses…

I’d love to get back in touch with my inner child, doing stuff I was actually passionate about when I was a kid/teen, but that I abruptly had to stop doing because of my career. Playing and composing music, filmmaking, various arts, learning and practicing languages… Also I feel like haven’t been able to read a good book (not medicine-related) in ages… would really love to slow my life down and extend my now f*cked up attention span.

Also it does get lonely after a while. Due to my studies and my parents constantly moving during my teens, i’ve never really experienced what a long term relationship is like. I’ve had like 5 or 6 girlfriends, only 3 of which i’ve been with longer than 3 months and none longer than 6. So I don’t want to wait much longer… I might end up seeming like a lame duck to women or painfully naive if I end up only starting to acquire some real relationship experience at that age… Because yeah , spoiler alert, I’m still very inexperienced in relationship matters. Oh god, I’ve gone way off-topic…

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Spoiler: Don’t worry you never get really experienced in relationship matters :wink: Every relationship is unique just as every person is unique. Even within the same relationship people progress and you need to adopt.

What I want to say, just hang in there you will be fine. Don’t worry to much even if it’s sometimes not easy (I speak out of experience).

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You’re in your mid-twenties and a doctor, you must be just out of med-school, your career barely started.

Despite what hard work medical school might entail, it does seem though that you’ve been putting also a lot (too much?) energy in aggressively building your investments (very impressive for your age by the way) - could that have contributed to your feeling of always being on the run?

On the other hand, wanting to bail out of being a doctor when you just started makes me question if there’s not a deeper issue to address here … not to mention that even from the FIRE perspective point of view, several more years of working (even part time) as a young doctor could boost your investments significantly - it’s never too early to think of building some generational wealth for your not yet born children.

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You’re in your mid-twenties and a doctor, you must be just out of med-school, your career barely started.

Sorry I guess I should have expanded a little more on the context. It’s a long story but I was lucky enough to start Med school at 16, learned about investing/FIRE early on, started working and investing every penny at 21/22. I’m 26 now.

Wanting to bail out of being a doctor when you just started makes me question if there’s not a deeper issue to address here …

I understand it might sound ludicrous to quit medicine after only 5-6 years working as a doctor… but to be brutally honest I would be totally mentally crushed by this job if it weren’t for the lighthouse of hope on the horizon that is the perspective of FIREing in the near future and finally start living a fulfilling life.

I’ve got to survive 2 more years doing this well-paid but soul crushing, 70+ hours a week, job to reach my FIRE goal, that alone keeps me going.
Modern western medicine is far from the glamorous image painted by movies and TV shows. The hospital can be a toxic,life-sucking, ultra-competitive, unforgiving place… Yes, a grateful smile from a patient, kind words after a successful recovery… can all be extremely gratifying… ( although even these are getting rarer, whereas the levels of entitlement,obnoxiousness and even aggressivity directed at medical professionals are on the rise) and that’s IF we even have sufficient time to spend with our patients… in an age where we spend more time looking at computer screens and filling in insurane reports than actually interacting with the people we’re there to help.

I can’t possibly go on like this for much longer, let alone until my 60s… and neither can many of my colleagues it seems, especially those working in specialties particulartly impacted by the surge in paperwork, post-covid workload increase, and/or that are on the frontlines of increasing incivilities coming from patients… I guess we’ve become just another kind of “service provider” in the eyes of the general public

And it’s not just Switzerland: Medicine’s great resignation - 1 in 5 doctors plan exit in 2 years

Covid got rid of the last bits of paper communication and informal exchanges, resulting in a system where every interaction, every detail of one’s reasoning needs to by electronically documented… in order to be imported (not so automatically) into the discharge letters or interdisciplinary reports.

One of my colleagues who was a full fledged surgeon already gave up medicine entirely to start from scratch and study architecture. He’s never been happier.

All medicine has been giving me lately me is stress, short robotic insatisfactory interactions with patients, and hours upon hours of dealing with paperwork.

Personally I’m dying to get back to my creative self, that part of me I’ve been locking away to avoid distraction from med school through residency. I’m actually very passionate about music, filmmaking, arts, learning and practicing languages, discovering new cultures… so many things I’ve temporarily “sacrificed” over this career. But I can’t go on sacrificing what remains of my youth

Also… haven’t really been able to date since I left med school… can’t wait to FIRE to finally get back in the game

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How about you start with a 3 months sabbatical to discover the stuff you’re missing or believe to be missing. I wouldn’t do 70h+ for “just” ~8k CHF in income, have you considered taking over a practice from an old GP doctor that wants to retire?

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Thanks guys, really appreciate you all taking the time to share your thoughts and advice.

How about you start with a 3 months sabbatical to discover the stuff you’re missing or believe to be missing.

Slowing down the pace and reducing my savings rate would only mean extending the duration of the pain until FI. If i tried mixing leisure, pursue my passions and a rich cultural life with the work situation I’m currently in, I’d neither have a satisfying life, nor a satisfying financial situation since I would delay reaching my goals while still suffering just as much as work…

I mean if the pain has to endured, might as well get over it quickly right? My reasoning might be flawed, but that’s how I currently look at things

~8k CHF in income

Combining all streams of income I’m at around ~11/12k gross monthly. But yeah considering I’m only paid for 42 hours, working up to 70 hours a week does make me feel underpaid … unfortunately that’s more or the less the norm in this field and at my level in the food chain. Of course if I were to be Leitender Arzt or have my own Praxis, that’d be a different story, but I’d have to endure at least another 7-8 years of this life before I’d theoretically get there.

But what I might be open to doing after I FIRE, potentially after having settled down, wife, kids and all, would be working 40% for a few years, should I need to temporarily increase my income stream.

It’s obviously another story entirely when having a family inherently brings joy and meaning into your life. But where I currently stand in my life, I would regret not enjoying life to the fullest with the mind and body of a young man while I still had the chance.

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You’re sharing in a public forum so I’m guessing you’re open to feedback. You’ve even thanked some other members for some. So here it goes.

You are a young man in great health currently not enjoying life to its fullest (where are the girls?). And you don’t know for sure that you will be able to in the future. You might have a bike accident or whatnot.

Also, I am not a doctor, do not work 70 hours a week and make what you make and more. And have time for my hobbies and other stuff. Granted I’m 10 years or more older than you are and my lifestyle is not frugal (I’ve shared numbers in this forum).

Bottom line: make sure you’re doing what you’re doing for the right reasons, and do not sacrifice too much the present for a better potential future that is not even guaranteed.

END OF UNSOLICITED ADVICE.

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Not all advice is good or helpful, but it doesn’t hurt to listen.

The thing is @NicoFireDoc, as many of our readers were really inspired by your story, it’s quite a shame that it comes with so much “pain” and “soul-crushing” as you put it. Just doesn’t sound right. Maybe we can help you with that.

Just like @Ed_Waadt was saying, life is not about extending the pain or postponing life.

I’m going to assume that you’re a highly capable guy, because who else would have skipped two classes and got into med-school at 16 while developing passions for filmmaking, composing music, arts and languages, and then got relatively proficient at being a good investor, and found time to frequent this forum, all while working 70+ hours a week.

I guess this is what one can accomplish when there’re no girls in the picture? :slight_smile:

But I digress - why this is intriguing is : why then has life to be so hard? Surely one could figure out a more comfortable way to enjoy the journey. So :

  1. Doctors have hobbies too. Get an easel and an electronic keyboard, and jam away at night - true passion trumps sleep.

  2. What kind of a doctor are you? If you’re an anaesthesiologist you might get away with reading some chapters while your patient is out.

  3. Don’t ask about girls advice, I’m not that great either. But with 5-6 girlfriends before 26 you’re way up the Bell curve, don’t sweat it.

Obviously you enjoyed the idea of medicine at some point at least, otherwise why would you have chosen to pursue it - evidently mistakes and/or wrong turns have been made in the process, but we’ll leave this for another time.

In the end, people usually do what they do. So maybe saving and investing money is your passion. And no change is needed.

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I am deeply sorry to hear that, I can relate: I had a burnout while working in a extremely toxic environment, the only positive thing I had was the goal of financial independence in front of me. It became an obsession. I neglected my friends and family.

When I reached FI number I quit my job. After a year of recovering from my depression I started to regain the original passion I had for my work.

Today I get small jobs here and there, but only on my terms and conditions. Still I make more than enough to cover all my costs. But it no longer feels like “work”.

I realize now money was never a problem. I don’t have to rely on my investments I saved for such a long time.

One thing I regret in retrospect is that I suffered through all this years for this goal. I think that’s where the FIRE movement is wrong: The future is not worth more than the present. We should live a good life here and now.

I heard about the terrible work conditions in hospitals. A doctor friend of mine told me the same stories, the hierarchies, the crazy working hours, the emotional toll. Today he has a small medical practice in a small town and is quite happy.

With your skills you have way more options than you think. I would strongly suggest to you that you consider to quit that job that you hate and find a new path to reach FI, maybe a few years later.

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Thanks pal, it means a lot to me that you put so much soul into this comment.

Since I personally abhor the very notion of regret and have pretty much banned that feeling from my life, it really resonated with me how you said that the one thing you might have regretted is suffering through these years of meticulous saving&investing.

But I can’t help but think that burdening yourself with regretfulness on this decision might be misguided. There is ultimately no telling if you would have been as content with your life as you are now if you hadn’t gone through this period of disciplined sacrifice. I see and respect the nobility of this undertaking and would rather look at this achievement with pride and satisfaction. It’s not like you can revert reaching your FI goal anyway, you might as well give yourself a pat on the back. :slight_smile:

In a way, reaching your goal was what allowed you to initiate your healing process. I would consider it a success. Your sacrifices paid off and you can now work on your own terms and only as long as you choose to do so.

This is why, despite the hardships, I’ll be right behind you :fire: :slight_smile:

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But it was the very thing that lead to the depression in the first place, or at least that’s how I interpret it from @kraphael’s comment.

Just think about it, what if you get a depression or other serious health issues due to the hard work, sacrificing so much, etc., but then you never recover from it, even after FIRE, was it worth it?

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I agree, most experiences, even suffering, can be valuable, if you are able to reflect on and learn from them. Besides some minor scars (some nightmares and anger issues) the bad times are in the rear mirror.

If you reach your midlife crisis years like me you realize how short life is and that every year wasted on unimportant stuff is a tragedy. It wasn’t reaching my FI number on my account that set me free, it’s the “fuck this” mindset that it enabled.

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First of all, thank you very much @NicoFireDoc and @kraphael for sharing your very private feelings. I is so great to read also the negative sites which we all have and experience. I kind of see @kraphael’s point that you should not waste your time either. Sure some suffering is not bad, but it should also not be totally wasted time. I had a very intense time from age 25 to 30 where I did an additional part time master and MBA beside working 100%. Even if I am very frugal I took myself at least one day per week to do something with my wife or friends and not look to much on the cost. With this I feel that yes I spent a lot of days working/studying but still have some nice memories from this time (specially some fancy traveling) even if I could have saved more, the time when the high salary kick in is coming later (now for me).

So I think my recommendation would be, be frugal and work but also do not forget to enjoy some days at least. Even if you reach FI some months later it would be a same if you look back and have totally wasted years (specially in your age @NicoFireDoc ).

While, I was really looking forward to FI, I’m now considering to make a break and spend money from a big shar packet that becomes fully mine in summer 2025 on a sabbatical year traveling the world with my family. The reason behind that is that with kids you basically need to continue to work as there are so many uncertainties like what if they study until 30 etc.

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No offense, but in my opinion your kids should look for a part time job or some other way to earn money to finance their life at a certain age.

I had to pay for everything myself starting around 22 years old. I worked full time in construction during the summer break at the university and part time in an office the rest of the year. It taught me valuable lessons for life and made me realize the value of money. It’s also a great feeling to earn and spend your own money instead of getting everything spoon fed by your parents, it makes you independent.

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Well my kids are 3 and 6 they still have some time until such decisions have to be taken. I also started to earn my money at the age of 16 and was not depended on my parents since then. But I always knew that if anything goes wrong my parents would be always there for me. I would like to provide the same to my kids in the sense of letting them know that I will always be there for them if needed and they also can take some risk (traveling, invest in stocks , try a start-up, etc,) without the fear that they would be broken afterwards. However, you are right I will also try to get them independent. Let’s see in 20 years where we are :crazy_face:. But that also means that I have to keep working somehow for the next 20 years.

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3 posts were split to a new topic: Looking for Mustachian Flat Share

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Hi folks,

Several here shared they had a savings attitude before this whole thing. I’d consider myself one of them.

I am also impressed by posts in other categories about saving and minimalism. So much effort for modest savings (e.g. monitoring supermarkets for food bargains)! I wonder if those are “crushes” or those people actually sustain those regimes. In the latter case, respect for your discipline :slight_smile:

I am 40yo and pre-retired a few months ago thanks to a side business. I see work as an opportunity to engage my talent to create something valuable for others, so I’ll likely resume work in the future if something worth it shows.

Just for curiosity: what fraction of members here is female? I’m interested in the level of engagement of women with personal finance.

Greetings from Zurich

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I am closing this thread as an experiment. To introduce yourself, please open a new thread in

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