Moving from Degiro VWRL to IB VT - how to sell/buy?

Dear all,

I am about to move from DEGIRO VWRL to IB VT. I have thought what’s the best way to do it but I want to know the feedback from your brilliant minds!

Situation:
DEGIRO -VWRL = 419 shares = 39.5k€
IB - VT = 0 shares

My idea:

  • Move 40k€ to IB from my bank account and convert it to USD
  • After 15:30pm sell all my position in DEGIRO and inmediately after buy VT in IB
  • Withdra the cash from DEGIRO to my bank
  • Another idea is to make the sell when VWRL is possitive and make the VT purchase when it goes a bit in red. Is this worth it?

Thanks a lot!

Sounds like a terrible idea :slight_smile: Just do the trade around the same time (assuming it’s not a wild day volatility wise).

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hahahaha I know, but it sounds like something easy…

To be more explicit, positive and negative days are relative. It’s possible VT would take a long time to go back to the level where you sold VWRL, and they you’d miss all the growth.

Personally I’d do it in steps, say 10k EUR at a time, to avoid being fully out of the market. There will be a delay to do the money transfer Degiro->your bank->IB. Or do you already have all the cash you want to invest in your IB account?

Bear in mind that you will probably need to wait for two days after selling VWRL before you can transfer your cash to IB. If it is not to expensive, transfer thw position to IB maybe where you can sell und buy immimediatly if you use a margin account? Otherwise just sell, hope for a small drop and buy after two days :slight_smile:

He or she can easily set himself/herself limits:

Sell at X.
Buy at X - 0.5%.
If price exceeds X + 0.5% buy anyway.

If you sell one a strong upward movement, it’s a flip of the coin, basically.

I do have the cash. I can do it simultaneously.

Here’s what you do: Degiro app open on phone and IB on desktop. Click buy at the same time as you click sell… all-or-nothing orders. You might even be able to sell to yourself :laughing:

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I giggled.

Then it quickly dawned on me:
Compliance and supervisory bodies likely will not find the idea very funny.

Sure, only if they get hold of it, which may be unlikely. Especially in high-volume securities like VT. Then again, if you’re really doing “symmetric” orders for a certain number and price of shares…

Is it selling to oneself if one sells VWRL and buys back VT?

2 Likes

Got it. No problem then.

I still (yet only) would advise against selling the same security to yourself. Even if unlikely (especially on such heavily-traded shares), it’s likely not going to be pleasant if someone did look into it, I think I remember having read about such a case once from a retail trader on some internet forum, The poster thought he was clever in taking an exchange trade as a shortcut to switch brokers, instead of transferring his positions. The authorities did notice in his case, started to investigate for manipulation and that wasn’t fun. Sure, I think it was some single small or micro cap in that case, if I remember correctly, but … not worth it just for lolz.

Question to the experts here.
I am fully now in IBKR and the biggest chunk of my portfolio is VT.
Last december I moved all my cash in CHF to EUR given the good exchange. My idea was to convert it back to CHF when EUR gets 1.08 CHF or higher. In the meantime, I thought I could use these EUR I have and buy the dip on something like VWRL (EUR). Why I cannot find this ETF in IBKR? I had it in DEGIRO before.
IE00B3RBWM25

Thanks for the tips!

Good luck with it, you will need it.

XETRA EUR VGWL

This one is distributing dividends in USD, although as you are at IB, shouldn’t be an issue for you. Otherwise there is an accumulating version.

XETRA EUR VWCE

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But considering fees, you are better off exchanging Euro to USD and buying VT.

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Did you consult IBKR contract search tool?

https://misc.interactivebrokers.com/cstools/contract_info/v3.10/index.php?site=IB&action=Top+Search&symbol=IE00B3RBWM25&description=IE00B3RBWM25

Shows up for me.

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Hi! why do you say good luck with it? due to the EUR weakness? In the mid-term EUR will grow, it’s impossible for Switzerland to keep this levels, it will affect their exports.

My idea since I have some EUR (already converted from CHF) in IBKR is to buy the VWRL (eur) so when EUR grows and the ETF grows, I get a bit of exponencial gain considering both factors (currency and stock market growth), and with a nice looking profit, sell this shares and make them back to CHF.

Maybe. Maybe this time it’s different. But I’ve been around since 1 EUR was 1.55 CHF or so - and they‘ve been saying the same when it dropped to 1.20 and 1.10. That said, the sharp drop may be only temporary.

Whether you buy VWRL or VT, currency won‘t meaningfully affect your performance in CHF.

If you want to make a bet on the EUR appreciating against the CHF, you shouldn‘t buy any stock ETF. While, the exchange rate movement may affect stock prices somewhat, it’s far from clear from how. World ETFs aren‘t a suitable bet on exchange rate movement at all.

Thanks a lot!
I just realized that VWRL will not provide me any exponential growth because it’s a USD ETF, so at the end is the same if I buy VT and then move to CHF.

I will keep my EUR in the bank and wait for them to increase its value to 1.08 CHF by year end.
Worst case I stay with the EUR and buy a property in Spain.
Thanks for helping me realized my movement was dumb!

You will get a lower growth because vwrl have higher fees than VT and otherwise it is essentially the same basket of stocks.