I am 28yo and I am born and raised in Switzerland.
However, I could already FIRE in a few countries with a similar lifestyle that I aim for here, which is a bit wild. I do enjoy my social sphere here and all, but when my wife and me have kids, friends will lose importance and your own family unit is a priority anyway. And since she is from a 1st world country as well (one that is similar in terms of QOL for a fraction of the cost), it becomes hard for me to stay here work 10-15 extra years for a lifestyle I could already get somewhere else.
What bothers me is, I knew Iâd have these thoughts as my NW approaches 1M - now about 800K in (±200/850K in a flat) itâs already starting. The good thing is that my wife wants to continue working, but for me work is kind of a dread since I finished my apprenticeship and I just endure and save my way to FIRE (and no, I donât think itâs a job or company problem, people are all very nice, I just donât give 2 fucks earn my ± 115K a year for very little actual work and thatâs it - I feel very privileged actually).
I know that you have âbig moneyâ which is probably the best for Switzerland. Retiring with 1-2M and living a working class life isnât very favorable tax wise, which is a bit of a bummer for us.
But this off topic. Nevertheless, I do think itâs better for me and my fellow citizens to get money from people who arenât voters.
Tbh, my biggest concern is the fiscal trajectory of Switzerlandâs neighbours. It will inevitably lead to further fiscal pressure, capital controls and above target inflation in the eurozone. Reinforcing the attractivity of Switzerland. Swiss voters will not want to foot the bill or be in the same boat. This is all leading to.. tomorrowâs vote.
I would not assume that if most of EU countries keep having issues, then Switzerland be somehow unaffected. A large market for Switzerland is EU itself.
Switzerland needs the world around it to be prosperous or else the business model collapses
Yes sure, become totally dependent for neighbors to be nice enough to help us out in war-times! And please donât answer with the lame âSwitzerland would not survive more than two weeks anywayâ.
Unless you are in tax hell of french speaking Switzerland we are already paying very low contributions to the state and society compared with same developed nations of the same level as CH.
My French speaking tax hell is cheaper than Bern, Basel-Landschaft, Basel-Stadt, Sankt Gallen and Aargau and mostly on par with Turgau, Glarus and Luzern at least, especially when you factor in health costs. Thank you very much.
Like it or not switzerland is already dependent on neighbor country. Even with 24/7 airforce its just too small of a country to survive a focused decapitation air attack. Military service is just an expensive tradition with drones entering the picture. I would support a professional drone defence force and infrastructure paid by taxes. But it is a democracy and if people like mandatory cosplayâŠ
Switzerland managed to do fine since 1291, and got through WWI and WWII better than many countries, so I donât see a desperate need for CH to abandon neutrality.
I think the last decades have shown the strength of decentralized, guerilla, terrain focused asymetrical warfare, for which Switzerland could actually be pretty good in a defensive war.
I donât think a decapitation strike would be the end of all. One of the positive points of our militia system is that people learn to coordinate inside and outside of the system and most units are probably able to handle themselves on their own. There would be logistical challenges but I donât think they canât be handled.
Now, would we fall quickly and could extreme pressure be applied on our population? Certainly. Our infrastructures can be destroyed, whole towns can be razed (just bring down a dam and see what happens to the localities below) and our economy might never recover. The best war, after the one that doesnât happen, is the one that is fought far away so a coordinated defense would be best but while weâd probably be takable, weâd probably be a horrible country to hold.
Anybody who would have first rolled through the neighbouring countries, making a coordinated defense even more efficient and important.
Unless it is one of the neighbouring countries, of course. I remember thinking this could happen in some form during the euro debt crisis in 2014-ish. At the time, the idea of foreign raids to grab some resources didnât seem completely outlandish to me. Granted, I am not a benchmark when it comes to assessing military and/or geopolitical risks.
Letâs assume Russia attacks and pushes through: Ukraine, Poland, Slovakia, Czechia, Germany, Austria. I find it hard to envisage a scenario where they could manage all that yet fail at Switzerland on the basis of some defence budget decision that Switzerland makes.
That is why I say coordinating is important and makes things more efficient. We have more impact if it happens at the early stages and helps the defenses of Ukraine, Poland, Slovakia, Czechia, Germany and Austria than if we wait until we are ourselves faced with the problem to do anything.
But also keeping a domestic military helps to make us a harder proposition to take and maintain sovereignty.
Again, itâs not about Switzerland beating a super power (which everyone gets is delusional). Itâs that against rogue/dictator states with a tendency for expansionism, the best defense is deterrence.
As long as the military is effective in modern warfare and not use as a political consensus token (e.g. until recently the air force was working office hours Monday to Friday, shorter than in fact the average Migros).
I would feel safer if the drone army budget was updated to more than a token effort, as it is quite clear that wars are going to be fought quite differently from a few years ago. Samurai died lamenting being dishonorably killed at a distance by peasants with a rifle, without allowing them to announce their familyâs honor and lineage before engaging in duel.
It made for good headlines, but wasnât this a result of international cooperation? Honestly if other countries are ok to share the burden of peacetime interception missions, it was a great cost saving (24/7 jet fighter readiness has a higher relative cost for small countries, France or Italy can cover their entire territory with one oncall aircraft).
It didnât mean they couldnât switch to 24/7 readiness when needed (WEF, etc).
Unless itâs part of sending arms to ongoing conflict or dual use (civilian/defense), it can also be a waste of money. You need vast amounts of drone (hundreds to thousand per wave) in a conflict and those you donât use can quickly become obsolete .
The key in modern warfare seems to be able to scale up cheaper and decentralized industries quickly.
The Ukraine conflict is so drone heavy because neither side has air superiority.
If you cannot prevent air superiority, then drones arenât so useful, youâll get bombed to death by conventional air forces.
Also both Ukraine and Iran are much bigger than Switzerland. The give up territory or turtle up tactics they used wonât be very effective for us.
Iâm a strong believer that neutrality is only truly possible with a strong army, but at the same time there are no clear military threats. Makes it hard to justify high expenses without a clear objective.
You never know⊠I donât get how people can be so naive. The EU could attack, Russia could, China, the US, whoever. Didnât the last year show that Realpolitik is made by force?
I 100% agree with this. A country needs borders and those borders need to be defended in case of an invasion from whoever there is.
Still think the military service tax is a discriminatory measure of older times. We should adopt the Israeli model of military service, but thos topic has a very weird super majority of opportunist women and conservatives both thinking women donât belong in the army (for different reasons)âŠ
Imho you shouldnât be able to buy out, not matter how much you pay - you should be provided a service you can do according to your physical/mental abilities.
Yes, they could. I guess aliens could also come and start zapping us. Expending limited resources on highly unlikely events is not sensible. Youâd save more lives investing the money into free aircon to reduce heat deaths.
And what would be the appropriate defense against US, China or Russia attacking us? Is there anything short of nuclear deterrence?
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