I am creating a new thread for this topic as I couldn’t find any other dedicated thread.
As Mustachians, we are focused on earning, saving and investing. However, there could be a situation where an unexpected event happens and we are forced to dig deep in our pockets to cover it from a legal perspective. This could be any event such as challenging an unfair termination or a civil lawsuit or even a divorce.
To cover these unexpected (and unplanned) situations, I would like to ask whether you have availed of legal insurance in Switzerland and if so, what have been your experiences so far (if relevant) and your recommendations?
Thanks for reading and contributing to this thread.
I have mixed feelings about legal insurance.
Let’s start with the biggest risk you mentioned for a Mustachian : divorce. Well, if you did not sign a prenup contract before your wedding, then no legal insurance will prevent the fact that your net worth will be divided by two, so it is useless in this case.
For other events, I know that insurance sellers usually want to scare us, so I’d be very curious to see who in this forum already used his legal insurance, if he has some.
As faar as I know by default a marriage is using the “Community property” system (“Errungenschaftsgemeinschaft”). So only the part acquired during the marriage (excluding inheritances and stuff) will be devided.
I do however completely agree with you about the marriage-contract part. (I have never been married though).
If I can trust my Insurance guy, my personal liability insurance already covers some legal assistance.
I have no experience with the pre-nup aspect (never been married) but I do know a scary story of one of my ex-managers (from the UK) who did have a pre-nup and was still taken to the cleaners by his wife during the divorce. The judge in the case threw the pre-nup out as the wife claimed that it was signed under duress. This happened in Zurich.
As a best practice though, the pre-nup sounds like at least some level of protection.
off topic but this is the second time I have heard a pre-nup getting dismissed because the other party claimed it was signed under duress. What to do here? Does signing an additional document stating the prenup was not signed under duress help in this situation?
i am with @Julianek about a “mixed feeling” and that the inurer’s incentive may not be aligned with my interets. however i know there are family tariffs that go down to about CHF 50 per person and year, provided enough peope live in the same household.
I also wonder how they work. I didn’t read much about it, but sometimes it looks like they just advise you on legal stuff but not really represent you. It’s not like you call them to write a letter to your neighbour about the noise they do all the time or something like that.
When you hear about enough cases like this, it’s no wonder that there exists a whole MGTOW (men going their own way) movement, who basically refrain from any legal commitments to women (calling themselves “herbivores”). They claim women tend to be hypergamous (seeking to marry a man of higher social status). This is a very controversial subject and as a disclaimer: I’m not saying I share these views. But topics like marriage and pre-nup definitely do belong in the Mustachian spectrum :P.
AFAIK, divorce law is not covered by legal protection insurances (Or if it is, it is only in the event of a divorce by full mutual agreement and the coverage is generally limited to approx CHF 3’000.-).
I have never contracted such an insurance policy. I find they are expensive and offer very limited risk coverage. All too often have I heard people complaining about their insurance stating that they refused to cover their legal fees.
If they do cover a case, most insurance companies have their in-house counsel represent the client up to a certain point (generally trying to negotiate with the opposing party, sometimes conciliation or mediation), and then outsource it to an attorney if the case goes to trial. Of course, as they will try to limit fees and expenses, they may push their client to accept an offer rather than go to trial.
Also, if they refuse to cover legal fees and expenses in a case, the only way to force them to, would be to take them to court…
It’s also a strong incentive to fix your marriage in case of problems instead of breaking up. I’d say this way it’s more beneficial to children. Keeping parents together in reasonable relationship is clearly good for them.
Liability insurance provides you with legal defense against covered claims. Usual conditions are that you have to notify them immediately, document the damage and not to accept responsability on your own.
Legal insurance plays offence, e.g. if somebody owes you sth but does not pay up. Excluded (or severely limited) are usually and notably family law, inheritances (inclusive claims inherited) and when renting out apartments.
One of the main points is to help against your health or liability insurance if they don’t want to pay up. We are talking expensive stuff here. They also help you dealing with them practically. The insurer knows from the beginning that he should play by the rules with you.
helps also with criminal and some administrative law. Car crashes nearly always involve criminal law.
cost around CHF 250/year
can also pay a yearly amount for consultation (also for family law / inheritance; Beratungsrechtsschutz). This is smart, as getting early counsel can save heaps of money later. This offer lowers the threshold to seek the needed help.
Important points:
insure that you can mandate a lawyer of your free choice
check what is precisely covered; ask here as some stuff is optional that lawyers know is too improbable or not expensive
lawyers recommend Coop Rechtsschutz; it also gets good test results. My experiences have also been positive so far.
I currently have a Protekta personal legal insurance (Rechtsschutzversicherung) for CHF 230/year which covers up to 1 million (for Switzerland). Now I was wondering what do you Mustachians recommend as legal insurance?
Or do you not even bother having such an insurance? I must say it might be a big of a luxury but I made use of it once and it was indeed useful.
Insurances basically work like a casino. Sometimes, you are lucky and you win (i.e. the insurance has to pay for something). Usually, as it is the case on the casino, the house wins (i.e. you pay more premiums than what the insurance pays for you).
With insurances, I try to cover only the things that are too big for me to financially handle, for the rest, I trust that I will on average win out by not taking insurance and pay up when I have to.
What kind of insurance you should or shouldn’t get, I cannot answer for you (personally, I have health insurance and houshold/liability insurance). But this way of thinking might help to answer it to yourself.
I have the combined protection (incl. traffic protection) named “TOP for family” by Fortuna (Generali Group) paying CHF 385 p.a. (260 for legal excl. traffic and 125 for traffic).
To me it seems that Switzerland is like the mother country of all insurances thinkable. In my home country I had only a full casco insurance policy for my car while over here I have, alongside the casco for my car, also health, life, legal protection (incl. traffic), travel and personal liability (the one required when renting) insurance policies (i.e. 6 policies in total)
I have been debating for a long time on personal legal insurance. I just dont see the need for. When exactly do you guys expect to need it, e.g. what needs to happen?
For my case the personal legal insurance proved to be useful with a dispute with the renting company. They covered all the costs, of course if I count all the years I have been paying I must still be at a loss…
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