Italian Dilemma about Fire

I have a personal strategy based on italian situation:

  1. After 70 years old I’ll receive a salary of about 700€-1000€/month
  2. I’m paying 10% of my salary in a retirement fund with low tax (if I early retire, I can have all this money)
  3. I’m investing all my other money in Vanguard-ETF (20% of my salary)
  4. I love writing books and I’m sure (when I’ll retire) that I can earn writing about 500€/months (side hustle)
  5. When I’ll be old, I will have a little heredity… maybe a little flat

Someone in my situation? Or something similar?

Can we (italian people) use the 4% rule? Or we must use maybe a 2% rule?

I can live with about 10.000€/year

So… how much money I need to retire now?


Do Italians have some special conditions that would make 4% withdrawal rate unsustainable?

Use this to calc your FIRE age:

In “retirement expenses” provide only the expenses that you wish to cover from your portfolio. As you said, you will receive a pension when you’re 70, but until then you will need to withdraw from portfolio. And Italy is not in the best financial condition. I don’t know how much you can rely on this pension.

I think you should calculate for the pessimistic scenario (no inheritance, no pension) and when you do get it, then treat it as extra. If by the end of your life you will have too much cash, well then you can give it as inheritance to your own kids :stuck_out_tongue:

10’000 EUR per year, that seems like a really frugal lifestyle!

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500eur/month to write books? Sign me in! How do you do that?

It’s a long Amazon history… :wink:
But it’s true

There is somewhere on this forum a discussion about the 4% rule in Europe. I’ve also read somewhere that the original author updated it to a 4.5% rule but naysayers said he also handpicked markets if I believe correctly…

Can someone explain to me why would 4% rule be ok for USA and not for Europe? I understand is as a GROSS withdrawal rate. So you take 4% and then you pay all etf fees, broker fees, withholding taxes, stamp duties, income taxes etc and then it has to be enough to support you.

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If you invest in sp500 ETF (7% yearly), I think you can apply 4% rule, but with all these taxes, I remain with 2-2,5%…
So in my case (10.000€ yearly), I need 500.000€.
Is it correct?

What kind of taxes do you have? Capital gains tax? Wealth tax? I guess it makes sense to include then in withdrawal rate calculation, as they are a direct effect of saving and investing.

Also, if you count like this, then you arrive at a very ridiculous point. If you only need 10’000 per year, then even if you only protected these 500’000 from inflation, it should last you for 50 years.


The big issue should be manily inflation and some nasty move from the government if you have an account in italy or if you own BOT or something like that…

the 4% rule says that you should have 25x what you spend yearly. 250000eur. 10keur is a bit frugal though…
As usual “health” is always missing…

Health in Italy Is almost free.
10.000€ yearly is not so frugal in my opinion, if you own a home.
So the little problem is having something like 300.000€, in Italy net salaries are low, like 15.000-20.000€… I need 15-20 years from now :frowning:

I don’t trust italy’s government and italy’s health care system. I would plan to have a bit more money to plan for health tourism and avoid italian BOTs.
Also I believe the italian government it’s a bit like Alitalia… as long as some people are in the buttons room, it will keep failing somehow

different forum:

Here the original author of the 4% study added new info…

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