Interest on IB margin

Investing / Brokers
1

Hi there,
I wanted to ask for guidance on the rates for margin interests. I have used my margin depot 2-3 times so far to buy VT and once MRK. However, the amount where always pretty low and I reduced my negative balance within 3 months. No, I would be tempted to make a move with the planed SGEN/Pfizer acquisition. My thinking behind this is specially now in these troubled times it seems relatively clear and lower risk trade. Currently the SGEN share price is 215.5$ while the agreed acquisition price is 229$ = 13.5$ (6.3% discount right now). While the FTC clearance is pending (and the biggest risk) I feel that with the EU green light and the latest positive news from SGEN there should be a reduced risk for this deal. Furthermore, the AMGN/HZNP deal got waived through with way more red flags (knowing the AMGN history about price raises after acquisitions) at the end by the FTC.

My idea would be now to take out a significant amount of margin to buy SGEN shares until the acquisition closes, which according to both sources should happen late 2023 or Q1 2024.
For a potential 250’000$ margin I get an interest payment of 16’325$ according to the following page:

Do I understand this correctly and the 16’325$ would be the annual rate for the margin and hence if I would take it out for 4 months that would be only 16’325$/3= 5442$?

I’m tempted as the potential gain would be (250’000$ x 229$ / 215.5$) -250’000$ = 15’661$ gross - 5442$ = 10’219$ net.

Is my math and the interest rates correct?
Thanks for any input

2

Yes the interest rates are annual.

Do you have enough funds at IB to get a 250k margin loan?

3

Mostly putting it out there, if you’re considering leverage, why not options?

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4

So you’re willing to take a $250K risk on an acquisition for a mere gain of $10K, that right? Please back away from the computer for your own sake mate.

4 Likes
5

The risk in relation to the possible return doesn’t really strike me as attractive.
In that case, you might as well bet on Bitcoin. No risk, no fun :grinning:!

But in fact, interest is annualized on IBKR.

6

Activision Blizzard / MSFT

Good luck!

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8

Thanks :+1:

I do have funds for up to 380’000$ but I would obviously not go all in as the timing is unpredictable and the related risk.

I thought about that as well. However, with the timing again it’s hard to predict and looking at the available options the time factor would reduce all my gains if the deal takes to long to close.

I understand that from a risk perspective it does not look logical indeed. However, from my perspective even if the deal would at the end fail (which is very unlikely and would be the first of it’s kind at this stage in Biotech), there have been several positive news about Seagen ultimately that would justify already a price per share around 200$. Hence it’s not a hot or cold decision.

As mentioned I agree that the risk/gain overall does not look juicy. However, looking at all the craziness that is on-going right now it seems that in general stocks will go down on the short run and bonds provide something around 4% annually so it looks like a good market opportunity.

Thanks to all for your inputs looking at the pure numbers it sounds like a bad deal, however I see it as a market opportunity. I will keep looking at the situation and let you know if I make the move or not.

10

Where did you find the information that the interest rates are annual? On the website, it says, “IBKR accrues interest on a daily basis and posts actual interest monthly on the third business day of the following month.” So, according to my understanding, your interest fees will add up every day and charged to you every month. Am I wrong?

11

Yes, they are accrued daily and charged monthly. But the rates stated are annual rates.

12

Let’s say the interest rate is 6%, so you don’t owe them 6% of the loan every day?
I’m still trying to understand the concept

13

6% is the annual interest. It’s calculated on a daily basis and charged to you monthly.
edit: Burninstone already said that. What part is unclear to you?

14

How I got it was as follows:
Loan = 100
Interest rate = 6%
Interest fee owed on Day 1 = 100 * 0.06 = 6
Interest fee owed on Day 2 = (100 + 6) * 0.06 = 6.36
etc.

15

Yeah. continue that and tell me how much interest you earn in one year. Now apply common sense and tell me if that sounds correct to you? :wink:

16

No, it doesn’t, but I needed to hear the confirmation from someone else. :laughing:
I try to be careful with these things
Edit: thanks all

17

rather like on Day 1 = 100 * 0.06 / 365= 6 / 365

18

Come on, do you really think anyone would make a margin loan where you’d need to pay your whole loan amoun in interest in less than half a month? :upside_down_face:

19

A friendly advice: If you already struggle this much calculating interest or not knowing about annualized interest rates. Keep faaar away from a margin loan for now.

You have lots and lots of reading/research to do before getting more into finance.

Really dont take this personal, but this is absolute basic stuff, that needs to be understood before you even invest at all.

1 Like
20

I agree. That’s why I ask ‘stupid’ questions instead of doing ‘stupid’ things. It’s all part of the learning process. However, a clear mention of ‘annual interest rates’ on IBKR’s website would have helped too. :smile:
Thanks again all for the explanations

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21

You can expect stated interest rates to always be annualized. Else it would be mentioned, not the other way round.

In general, most things in finance are stated/calculated on an annualized basis. Except of course things like stated daily changes in value etc.

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