I stopped seeing FIRE as one number and started seeing it as levels of freedom

Investing / Others
21

And when you reach FI, being made redundant and getting severance would be like hitting the jackpot! :stuck_out_tongue:

3 Likes
22

I outsourced my FIRE project to AI, so closed loop here. Maybe I’ll get FROZEN.

  • Financially Restricted, Overworked, Zero Equity, No-retirement
  • Forced Reliance On Zero Exit Net-worth
  • Financial Ruin Of Zero Emergency Nestegg
  • Forever Renting, Overleveraged, Zero Escape Now
  • Fixed Routine, Ongoing Zealous Employment Necessity
  • Financially Repressed, Oblivious, Zombie-like Employment Nightmare
0 voters

(That’s AI too)

1 Like
23

Well it depends where you live. AG will be different to ZH. So I think it‘s highly personal what fat FIRE means.

1 Like
24

Isn’t this more of a coffee topic rather than an investing topic?

1 Like
25

@Cortana I went through a similar thought process a couple of years ago. My steps / milestones were being in position to FIRE in my home country, then somewhere in south Europe, and then Switzerland. Some number on the sheet, some in my head.

Over time, it has mutated to living and working in Switzerland for the next ~ 18-20 years (seeing my child grow to become a well balanced and functioning adult, and buying a house right now). Having a child, and seeing parents get older, changes priorities, plans, and the way you see your life over next 1-2-3 decades, I am in early 40s. I know some people retiring at 60 right now making plans for next 10 years, and some who retired 20 years ago at 60 - now at 80 making plans for altersheim. So thinking decade by decade seems like a natural progression from where I stand right now.

One the money front, I crossed a ‘mental milestone’ of 1m CHF a while back, and then 1m CHF in ETFs soon after, and >1.5 m including P2+P3. This took 16 years after I finished my masters. Assets have grown faster than my (reasonable 3% return) expectations. Funnily enough my placeholder FIRE number has been 3m CHF in ‘free assets’ (ETFs+P3). I’m well on track to reach it in another 14 years. In addition I’ll likely end up with a small chunk of equity in the house + 1m in BVG + 2/3 of max AHV).

I like large error bars on the upside :slight_smile: As I have mentioned previously in the forum, I like the quote from Morgan Housel’s the psychology of money: Save like a pessimist, invest like an optimist.

4 Likes
26

I wondered, I have daughters so we’re well versed in Frozen :slight_smile:

1 Like
27

In my seven months in SEA in 2023 I spent approx. 1500€ per month, incl. accommodation, food, transport and diving. Long term rentals are even cheaper. Idk why you would need >2k per month there in a “lean” FIRE.

Your 6k per month FIRE in CH seems insanely high to me. I spent 4k on average and go on international vacations 5 weeks a year
so I would say 3k seems more reasonable.

4 Likes
28

Health care? Visiting family in Switzerland once or twice a year?

2 Likes
29

Mhmm when I was in SEA I had health insurance coverage from German ERGO (unlimited amount, without deductible, world ex-USA) which cost me 250.- in total over 7 months, i.e. approx 40.- per month. I didn’t have any other insurance at the time. Round trip Bangkok-ZRH should be approx. 1k


How would you spend 8k per month on “normal” FIRE in Switzerland?!? That’s twice my expenses and I live in Zurich city


1 Like
30

Everybody has their own desired lifestyle. You’re coming across a little combative.

When you deduct taxes, health insurance, AHV and rent, what’s left is much less than 8k. Plus, I’m guessing Cortana isn’t aiming to live as cheaply as possible but rather have enough do to some spending without having to worry about it.

1 Like
31
  • 2.0k apartment
  • 1.2k special services
  • 1.0k vacations
  • 0.8k taxes/AHV
  • 0.8k food/household/restaurants
  • 0.4k tech stuff
  • 0.4k health insurance
  • 0.3k tennis & gym
  • 0.3k motorcycle
  • 0.2k insurances
  • 0.2k internet/serafe/mobile/electricity
  • 0.2k public transport & Uber
  • 0.2k clothing & gifts

8k total :slight_smile:

2 Likes
34

For me it’s not strictly about FIRE - I would still want to be productive in the world, but in my own terms. The freedom to just wake up and to say I can do whatever I want that day. Most days I will wake up saying I want to be productive and do my best work. But in my own terms and most importantly, my own schedule. That will give me an increase in contentment. NOT in happiness. Financial independence does not make you happier but takes away a level of dissatisfaction from your life. It’s different than gaining happiness. You just take away displeasure from your life. And the risk of potential displeasure in your future.

5 Likes
35

I feel, considering it is the second item in the list, you need to give more details :eyes:

36

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9 Likes
37

The sides, they are expensive. They might even cure cancer.

38

If it floats, flies, or f
s, better to not buy but rather pay by the hour.

so, you enjoying renting a boat and going fishing on one of the swiss lakes?

1 Like
40

I really don‘t plan on having kids or marrying. Absolute freedom and vitality are my ultimative goals. I saw my brothers kids grow up in the last 12-18 years. Having a family is nice, but for me personally not worth the sacrifices.

41

I don’t know what you’re talking about.

1 Like
42

Nobody knows.