How to factor in FIRE when kids may or may not be in the future?

I totally respect that, and for many it is the right decision. But note, that we also change ourselves as people with time, and what we want now might not be what we want in the future. It’s not constant, so priorities and wishes might change. I had kids a bit later in life - and I’ve done it all until then - until it started to be boring. Cocktails on beaches, travels, dinners in fancy restaurants, beers in bars, ski vacations, hikes, boats, been around the globe etc - all became routine.

Kids rewire your brain and you actually become a different person. You get an extra life experience. Some people say that parenthood is like “playing poker with real money” (i.e., high stakes, real consequences, skin in the game), while life without children can feel more like playing with play money or “just for fun,” in the sense that the stakes emotionally and financially are perceived as lower. I get to live once, so getting the full menu and dealing with it completes the experience. On a separate note, I know some older people, in their 60s, and life became a bit lonely for them, although they have FU money and can do whatever they want. We do change with time and what we want know is not what we’ll want in the future (just like what we wanted 5-10-15 years ago might not be what we want today).

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This is true and it isn’t hyperbole. Having kids creates hormonal changes (also in the father!) and makes you a different person. So while you may not want to have kids, the post-parent-you probably will.

I saw the most extreme example with a friend of mine who never wanted kids, hated kids and was hell-bent on an aggressive climb up the corporate ladder.

When she fell pregnant, she was devastated. She didn’t want the kid, but various religious/social reasons meant that she wasn’t willing to have an abortion either.

When the kid was born there was a total transformation. She was focussed only on the child. Not only that, she made a complete 180 on her work too and said how stupid she was to have wasted her life in the multi-national company she worked for.

“When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things” 1 Corinthians 13:11 (KJV)

I’d say the difference between a man and a father is greater than that between a child and man.

I remember once asking a colleague who had recently had a child what it was like. He told me “You have your life before kids, and your life afterwards. And the two are completely different.” As a someone in their late 20s at the time, I thought he was just exaggerating. I didn’t understand and honestly, I don’t think it was possible for me to understand.

In the same way you can try to explain to a child what is different as an adult from a child, but they won’t really get it. It just seems you grow a bit taller and get to do what you want. The changes as a parent are even more subtle, but impact greater.

Anyway, it is not to say that it is better: it is a different life, not a better life.

From a FIRE perspective, with unpredictability on the future in terms of spouse, kids it can be prudent to add a little buffer to your plans in case they change. As someone who FIREd once as a single person and then got un-FIREd when 2 kids came along, I know this well.

Also, I personally know of 3 cases where the mother was told they would never have children due to various medical reasons and nature unexpectedly found a way.

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I know one but it’s relevant to the thread: friend of mine was like your female friend above - and still is - doesn’t like kids, didn’t want kids. His wife was told she can’t have children for various reasons including having a single ovary. One unprotected occasion…pregnant. Twins. Not making this up.

Sadly my friend has still not come 'round.

Anyway, this is Cortana’s thread and decision so let’s not derail it further!

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One of the women I knew had something similar, Doctor: “something, something, uterus, something impossible to have children”.

The lady ended up having 4 kids.

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