Hi, I'm Olivier

Hi everyone,

My name is Olivier, I’m 25 years old and work as a banker (that you all hate on this forum haha).

I actually love my work and it’s quite well paid. I’m trying to evolve by applying to new position. I hope it’ll be soon and that my salary will take a big increase as well.

Currently, I can not save any money. Indeed, I have some high expenses as I live alone in my flat. Also, I’m a student and need to pay the studies, even though my company pays a good part of it.

I always wanted to feel free and travel the world by discovering new cultures and countries. My goal is to travel for a long period, stopping and going whenever I want. I don’t want big hotels, I want to be with the aborigines.

Here is my actual budget :

Incomes :
Salaire 5 194,00 CHF
Katya 100,00 CHF
Total of CHF 5’294

Expenses :
Rent : 1580
Electricity : 50
Internet : 50
Mobile phone : 19
Serafe : 30
SwissCaution : 20
Parking : 40
Car taxes : 20
Car insurance : 90
3rd pilar : maximum 573
Health insurance : 155
Taxes : 600
Bachelor : 620
Credit : 490 (This is for an investment. The return of it will come from end of this year)
REKA (I have -33% thanks to my company, so I buy the maximum every year) : 60
Food : 400
Restaurants & Fun : 300
Health : 70
Total : 5194

As you can see, I can not save more than 100.- per month.

By the way, I bought the book of Mr MP :slight_smile:

What do you think ?

Update (thanks to all the answers)

After counting everything correctly, I learned that I save up to 30% per month from my salary and that CHF 100.- = 2%.

With this information, I’ll think twice before buying something for CHF 100.- :smiley:

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I forgot to write my assets :

  • Savings accounts : approx. 2000.-
  • Investments : approx. 17’000.-
  • Placed money (rate of 6%) : USD 9000.-

I’d probably start by building some emergency fund (assuming you picked a high deductible health insurance, it might already be kinda tight).

I guess otherwise the biggest expense are restaurants&fun and car expenses, anything to cut there?

Also, you probably shouldn’t count pillar3 and “credit” (whatever that is) as expenses, they should be savings right?

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Thanks for your input ! :slight_smile:

About the car : I thought about selling it. However, I found a new website where you can rent it when you don’t use it. As I work 15’ by walk from my flat, I barely use it (but I need it for various stuffs). Anyway, what I wanted to say is that I made around 450.- in 3 months between november and january. I want to try longer before taking any decision, but I guess I can completely cover the fees of the car and make some additional profit. That’s something to follow :slight_smile:

The credit is a investment : I bought a part of a house in Bali with a expected return of 22% a year. The credit costs me 4.7%, so I can make a profit of the difference, but from the end of this year only.

Restaurants & fun are, at the moment with covid, much lower. But you’re right : i could cut a part of this budget :slight_smile:

Hi Olivier!

I’m curious, what’s the difference between your investments and placed money?

I’d count the interests as part of the (yet negative) returns of the investment and the principal as savings, used for that specific investment. Am I understanding right that you plan to pay off the credit by the end of the year?

You seem to be on a very good trail, enjoy the ride!

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Hi dear Wolverine (never thought I’d speak to a super hero)

The 9k are actually on Binance, invested at a rate of 6%.
I plan to use those 9k to invest on cryptocurrencies as I like to follow and understand them. Currently, the market does not have any logic so I’m out of it, but plan to come back when everything goes down (it’s what I think is going to happen). In the meantime, it’s a good rate I guess and I let it there.

For the credit, I won’t repay it all by the end of the year :
The credit itself is 35k that I started to pay back as soon as I got it. This was for this Bali house, that should bring me around 2500.- this year, and 5000 for the following years. That makes a return on the whole investment in 7 years, and then I just receive 5000.- per year as a dividend.

So what you advised me is to count the 4.7% negative interests as a expense and the amount I pay back as an investment ? It could work that way as well I guess, it will bring me some positive thoughts ahaha

Thanks for your input :slight_smile:

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In retrospect, most likely the biggest difference will be in increasing income. I think 5k (assuming that’s gross) is well below the Swiss median (6.5k?), so there should be some investment in yourself (promotion? job change?) that could pay off :slight_smile:

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The 5k are net. But you’re right, as a single guy paying everything by himself for the flat, the promotion will be a very good thing. I’m on it, I applied to a new position and will get the answer by the end of February so, finger crossed ! :smiley:

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Also account properly the debt as part of your wealth.

(By the way, you seem to have a lot of non-traditional investment, it’s a good idea to take a step back sometimes and figure out whether the promised returns will actually realize, and whether they aren’t high mostly because of the increased risk – so looking at the risk adjusted return there might be better options).

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I do have traditional investments (17k) in funds or equities I know well.

But indeed, the 35k of debt is an actual debt. However, it is an investment as well, which make it difficult to calculate :sweat_smile:

I would say I’m a very interested investor and I like the risk. For these reasons, I have “non-traditional investment”. I’m actually fine with it and believe in them very strongly (did a lot of research before investing in it).

Hello and welcome in this forum :slight_smile:

I have few questions for you:

As I’m leaving with my girlfriend we share our expenses for the rent, maybe you could have a roomates to pay less ? The other alternative could be to find something less expensive. Of course, if you are leaving in a town where apartment are rare, just live with it for now.

I was wondering how you spent your money on food ? Do you really spend 500 CHF alone ? With my girlfriend we spend 400-500 CHF together, so I was wondering how do you spent this amount alone; maybe a lot of meat ?

For fun and restaurant it will depends on you of course, I personaly set up 200 CHF for my girlfriend and I, so you could maybe spend less here. Of course with the covid it should help a lot :slight_smile:

Otherwise, you are on a good track for your age, keep improving your knowledge and you will be fine.

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If I were you, I would eat eggs and prix garantie salads until I would be able to deposit the 4740 CHF instead of Swisscaution, because you are paying 5% on that amount.

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That is also a though I had :
As I block 4xxx.-, I can not invest them.

Since I started investing, I’m way above the 5% so for me, it is more interesting to pay kind of 5% negative interest if I can make more than 10% on investing it. It actually makes me a net profit of 5% on the amount per year

To be honest, I need to calculate my food money better. I spend a lot recently for clothes and other stuff (that I by the way didn’t really need) and never looked into details for food. I bought my stuff in Coop or Migros but realise by reading this forum that it’s way to expensive and will now buy at Lidle or Aldi.

For the rent, I like and need to be alone in my flat, that for remaining peace in myself :joy:
This flat I have is important to me and I don’t really want to move out. That’s a sacrifice I don’t want to do now.

Thanks for your inputs :slight_smile:

:smile: I’m more of the northern badger kind but hey, thanks anyway!

Thanks for your answers.

I like to account for each of my investments individually, to figure out what I get out of each of them. To me:

  • Money I put down is an investment, it stays part of my net worth (provided I get something of equal value out of it, like equity in the house).

  • Credit I take to finance it is leverage. I count the amount I owe as negative net worth and I discount it from the total value of the investment (here the house) to figure out how much of it I really own.

  • Interests and fees are expenses, they count against the returns of the investment (but I don’t count them as personal expenses because that’d drive them up when those expenses are really just a mean for better returns).

Your way of accounting seems to allow you to be laser focused on savings, because only raw taxable savings count toward it, but could also paint a misleading picture, which could lead to a misrepresentation of the value of the money you put down, or the real worth of your investments. Whatever works for you works for you, though, keep on doing well!

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All my expenses on food are made at Migros (well at least 98%), so you don’t need to go to Lidl or Aldi if you are looking for quality food; not saying that there isn’t quality in Aldi or Lidl, sometimes I was really surprised about meat for example.

This is totally understandable :wink: I’m also renting something that is quite expensive for what it is, but it is a new building, near all commodities and we have lovely neighbours so for now, quite happy.

I think that for now, what you could improve could be on food, fun & restaurant, and maybe insurance expenses. As you said in a previous post, selling your car could be an option too if you really don’t need it.

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what is Katya?

Also, what do you use the REKA for? 33% discount on some travel agencies seems a good deal once you find better prices elsewhere.

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Hi Oliver, welcome to the Forum. You save much more than you think!
100, that you mentioned
573, in the 3rd pillar (ideally invested in cheap ETFs)
265, estimated 5% your employer pays into your personal 2nd pillar pot
265, estimated 5% deduction from your salary for your personal 2nd pillar
490, invested in a credit (if you ever get that back…)

So you are saving about CHF 1693 or 30% of your salary. Not bad for a starter salary!

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Well Katya is my ex girlfriend that owes me some money :joy:

It will disappear in a few months !

I use Reka for fuel mostly, or public transport when I need. Usually, it makes the most of the 1000.- I get per year (that I pay 667.-). Maybe this year will be lower expenses in REKA as it’s new that I walk to go to work (I moved closer).

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The income, not the girlfriend, hopefully. :smiley:
Btw I googled Katya in case it was something special I don’t know…

image
This is what I got. :smiley:

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