Good Swiss RE Funds

What Swiss RE Funds do you consider “good”? This in terms of TER, Agio, Debt Ratio and Segment? The challenge is that I struggle to find ideal candidates for Investment - so appreciate your inputs here.

At the Moment, I see the picture as follows

RankFundSegmentRegionDirect?TERAgioDebtComment
1Helvetia Swiss PFResidentialBlended CHY0.76%11.9%22.7%New Listing; tad high TER
2ZIF Immo Direct CHResidentialBlended CHY0.79%9.57%25.3%New Listing; tad high TER
3SwissinvestResidentialBlended CHN0.60%29.28%21.5%Agio too high
4Immo HelveticBlendedNW SwitzerlandN0.57%20.01%30%High Debt; too Commercial
5RealstoneBlendedBlended CHY0.79%12.6%28.3%High Debt; too Commercial
Source: https://media.mvinvest.ch/immolisten.pdf; 01.10.2024

What other, interesting RE Funds do you identify? Most of them are too expensive or come with toxic agio / dis-agio I think… if I followed this analysis, I would invest my money in two funds that were just listed a few months back - don’t really like this conclusion…

I wonder this too. It would be nice if there was an equivalent “VT and chill” option for Swiss RE.

There is a VT and Chil option (which is what I do right now)… just buy the market. But unlike Shares, I don’t think that this market was fully efficient and Indexing the right approach…

Checkout Patrimonium Swiss Real Estate Fund PSREF

https://www.patrimonium.ch/investment-solutions/swiss-real-estate-fund

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Is there an ETF that you can buy on IBKR that buys you the Swiss RE market?

How about an ETF like this one that covers the SWIIT index?

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I guess these will not have the tax benefits of the direct swiss funds.

I have planned to consider the following

ERRES
PSREF
CSLP
ZIFIDS
DRPF

My idea is to have diversification across funds & also across the Switzerland geography to spread the investments.

I am only looking at three things

  • am I comfortable with % of commercial real estate. On average don’t want to have more than 30% across RE portfolio
  • am I comfortable with final yield. TER% is less relevant because what matters is what we get at the end as yield. I think DPRF has lowest yield but it also has highest residential exposure. I think we have to expect lower yields for residential
  • I think I have to assume that market participants are paying right AGIO. This is most difficult to judge but I don’t have a better way than to trust market participants

For taxable accounts -: Direct ones make more sense or else a lot of income is lost in taxes.

For pension accounts -: I think indirect might be better as they are much larger

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The tax value of that ETF is discounted by about 40% (per end of 2023) and 43% of this year’s dividends were tax free. I guess that about 40% of the ETF’s holdings are direct Swiss RE funds but haven’t checked the holdings in detail.

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I don’t know about you, but for me I actually don’t want to be too diversified geographically, I still want to mostly track real estate in the region where I live (so not really interested in how the NW Switzerland or Lemanic arc will evolve).

Is it worth the extra 1% TER on top of the inner funds?

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It’s an extra 0.25% p.a., not 1%. The 0.97% p.a. include the TER of the holdings.

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Yeah and I am planning other way around. I am more interested in overall market and not concentrated holdings in one area

I guess everything is fine as long as we know what we are looking for