Do you see people in developed countries would want to make this switch? I assume people who believe in BTC must think so. I do not see how we would be better off than with SNB
More saving, fairness, efficiency, less debt, etc. what I mentioned in my post basically. I don’t think SNB has necessarily people’s best interest in mind. Overall, just like religion, I’d like my money and state to be separated.
Also, if hyperbitcoinization happens, you will have a tipping point in which fiat currencies will lose so much vs. bitcoin that everyone will want to switch.
I am not saying it will happen tomorrow, but I would not be surprised if a central bank declares bitcoin as a unit of measure in this cycle already (so before 2024). Norway is getting there fast and that would be the first step.
The final point that will make a lot of people mad and I know I should not mention it 
Electricity secures the network, no trusted parties or military forces are needed for that. Fewer people with guns is another plus in my opinion.
Can we try the other model for a while to confirm it is so much worse? And if it is less successful, it will die on its own. As I said, we anyway need a full social adoption to get there, so you have nothing to worry about…unless people want a system change…
Yes, exactly that; AI does a better job than humans already in so many fields, I don’t think it is far-fetched. And it does not need to be “on the blockchain”.
I think you and the banking system missed a few centuries of technological progress.
According to this article Norway Central Bank (same as other central banks) don’t see BTC as providing stability, they are not considering it. They are considering a Central Bank Digital Currency - which would be in competition with BTC
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Yes yes, I was more taking a bet 
I still hope Switzerland will be the first.
Good interview of Ray Diallo this morning about bitcoin, bond, inflation, etc.
Probably not the time to sell your coins.
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My understanding is that the interview happened on May 6th, so before the recent run down. It shouldn’t change much but he’s probably adapted the positioning of his assets since then. He seems to be really hating bonds in this environment, though (can’t blame him).
Who would buy bonds (if you exclude those who are forced to, like your pension fund)?
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Yes, it was first broadcasted this morning during a virtual event. I think it is interesting because (i) Ray has changed his mind about bitcoin and (ii) he speaks about a few points we had on this thread around inflation, bonds, store of values, etc.
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True, but Ray Dalio is one of the funding member of Bridgewater’s “All Weather” portfolio, which used to contain a lot of bonds (their version of the portfolio is a dynamic one, in order to allow them to sell their expertise). The publicly spoken of version of the “All weather portfolio” contains 55% Bonds: http://www.lazyportfolioetf.com/allocation/ray-dalio-all-weather/
My understanding is that Bridgewater is moving away from the big bond allocation in it, and Ray Dalio now seems to see bonds as a liability and no more an asset. It is interesting because you’d think that an “All weather” strategy should cover all weathers, that is, be as valid in times like these than in those we’ve encountered so far.
Ray Dalio’s input on the topic is also interesting because he adopts a view geared toward future generations and, as he says so himself (I haven’t a link to the interview stored but tell me if you want me to find it again), he now wants to transmit his knowledge and understanding, as he is getting older.
I’m willing to think that he has focused more on the economic and price prospects of Bitcoin than its environmental impact, but I’d be surprised if he hasn’t at least thought about that aspect before deciding Bitcoin was a decent enough hedge against what the future may have in store.
There are two other things that I find interesting:
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Up to november 2020, he seemed to think little of Bitcoin, so he has changed his views when the price went high. It’ll be telling to see what he thinks of it now that the price has dampened a bit.
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I’ve been mainly on a similar course, going from dismissing Bitcoin totally two years ago to considering it might have a place as a small allocation in the conservative part of a portfolio. Of course, its main use would remain, in my opinion, to allow for huge gains, while being exposed to huge risks, in a ride on the greater fool rollercoaster (that is, trying to capture its pikes while avoiding the brunt of the falls. Not necessarily an easy task).
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So I wanted to use Bitcoin for an actual online payment transaction.
The user experience was absolutely atrocious.
“Exchanged” fiat money into Bitcoin at Coinbase. Easy enough. After all, it’s a billion dollar exchange-listed crypto exchange.
Then wanted to pay a small amount on a web site. The merchant used Coingate to handle crypto payments. Their web site, too, looks very professional.
So professional in fact, that they warn you ahead: “because transactions from exchanges get sent after a significant delay and sometimes the exchange charges a fee from the sent amount. As a result, transactions often arrive too late (when the invoice has already expired)” And that lines up with the explanation at Coinbase.
Yeah, I know, there’s a layer-2 network with Lightning. But alas, it seems unsupported by Coinbase.
But back to Coingate. After all, their FAQ is quite helpful in recommending sending from my own wallet. So where do I get one of these “wallets”, then? They also provide that info on their FAQ. In fact, there’s two wallets they recommend:
The first one looks rather in design. Not only in being English-only and their web site design, but also in their advice: “Electrum binaries are often flagged by various anti-virus software. There is nothing we can do about it (…) Finally, if you are really concerned about malware, you should not use an operating system that relies on anti-virus software.”
The second links to a Github page. Where they tell you they’ve changed their name and, oh, also warn you of fake app in the app store.
Seriously, does any normal person want to figure all of this stuff out, to make payments online?
Oh yeah, and regarding that electric car I wanted to buy - its manufacturer withdrew Bitcoin payments only a couple of weeks after announcing them with great fanfare.
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I can recommend exodus as a great wallet, you can have it on your mobile phone as an app, it is really good and light. Usually, all it takes is to scan a QR code.
A general comment, exchanges are not necessarily a “wallet” and this can create some frustrations. For instance, I cannot send btc from my kraken account to another kraken user because kraken already keeps them “together”. And when you do a transaction from an exchange, they usually do it in batch so it might take more time. That being said, I have never had “significant” delay so far.
PS: don’t forget to activate coinbase pro to lower the fees, it is only one click
I followed the link with a lot of curiousity - thanks for sharing. However I do not intrepret his comments to mean he is endorsing BTC as being the solution. In fact the opposite, he was giving a warning to BTC investors that if BTC were to become a success then governments may crack down, similar to when they outlawed owning gold in 1934
He has also said US bonds and cash are trash so his comments of BTC being favourable relative to those should probably be taken in context.
"While he suggested a diversified portfolio could include the oldest and largest cryptocurrency by market cap, there are risks many may not be considering, according to Dalio.
“One of the great things, I think, as a worry is the government having the capacity to control almost any of them, including bitcoin, or the digital currencies,” he said. “They know where they are, and they know what’s going on.”
Governments may start to worry should bondholders sell their bonds in favor of bitcoin. “The more we create savings in [bitcoin], the more you might say, ‘I’d rather have bitcoin than the bond.’ Personally, I’d rather have bitcoin than a bond,” Dalio said, chuckling. “And then the more that happens, then it goes into bitcoin and it doesn’t go into credit, then [governments] lose control of that.”
Such a situation could lead those governments to crack down on bitcoin holders."
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I want to ask you a theoretical question. Let’s imagine a World where people switch to private cryptos and smart contracts. In such a World, where the government has no knowledge of your income or wealth, what would be the sensible method of taxation, in order to finance the necessary public services? The government only knows your domicile address and that you exist. It also knows the owners of all real estate in the country and of some other large items, like cars.
I can think of per capita tax, which would have to be the same for everyone. Then the real estate tax, either based on surface or better, value. What are your thoughts? And please, humour me, and don’t start with “oh, this would never work, the government could force you to state your income” etc etc.
We’re going to tax your energy and electric power consumption.
And that of the miners too.
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Salary, vat, wealth taxes, it doesn’t change so much. And most crypto are not so private, especially if we have kyc regulations coming in the future.
That being said, private schools exist too.
I assume they will oblige you to declare your income with threat of jail etc. similar as today.
They will add reporting requirements and shut down banks / exchanges that do not comply or lock up their owners
Seem similar to non CH people hiding assets in Swiss bank accounts ?
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Robo taxation, IA taxation, TVA, micro taxation on every payment and so on every trade, income tax. There is a lot of idea for government to earn money from people and companies.
One of the idea is here: micro-tax • Text of the initiative
Another one from my last tax law professor: Quand les robots paieront leurs impôts - Le Temps (the book seems to be also published in English, I have the French’ one; I should read it on the following days).
Most of you seem to have missed my point.
You’re stuck in this mindset that crypto needs a lot of energy to work. With POS it does not. And my point is not what tricks may the government come up with to get you to pay, but rather what would be the fair ways to introduce taxation, if it was impossible to determine someone’s income or wealth?
If I put solar on my roof, then it’s absurd for a government to tax me on this. On the other hand, taxing the potential that a piece of land within country’s borders gives you, is a different story. Since on every square meter the sun is shining every day, that gives potential to generate energy. But you should pay regardless of if you use it or not. I’d say it normally would be priced into the value of the land. Flatter terrain with more sunlight has higher value => your tax is higher.
Jesus… but there are private cryptos.
My general idea is that the government should not collect information on the activity of its citizens. It shouldn’t be its business if a hairdresser gets a pair of scissors and starts cutting people’s hair. This hairdresser now has to pay VAT on that service, then an income tax, when again VAT when he’s spending his income as a consumer. All this administrative overhead is a bureaucratic nightmare, which exists purely to get some money for the government.
Did you really not understand my request? I said humour me, I said let’s not discuss if it’s realistic but what if it was like this. In my opinion, when a government charges VAT on cutting hair, and then on income, and then again when the person is spending this doubly taxed money, it’s deeply unfair, immoral and it shouldn’t be like this.
While it doesn’t need to use lots of energy on paper, the fact is that the most popular “cryptocurrencies” do - cause they’re not Proof-of-stake.
Yeah - so why not tax you on energy consumption?
You like to fly 'round the world for holidays? You pay more tax.
You have a bigger house? You’re going to spend a larger bill on heating.
Same would be true for that big TV of yours, or the car in your garage.
I haven’t fully though this through, but yeah, we could tax you on the amount of energy consumed from the grid. And maybe the amount that went into production of your solar panels - or their output capacity.
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Taxing energy is a step in the right direction, that’s for sure. I am all for taxing stuff that uses up natural resources. But only (mostly?) non-renewable ones. You buy some oil from abroad? Fine. But if you burn it and pollute the atmosphere, you should pay all the environmental costs, health costs, costs of having to repaint dirty buildings, all that hidden stuff that today is spread over the society. But if I collect solar energy on a piece of land that I own, who’s business is it? I wouldn’t even sell it to the grid, just use it myself. If you tax this, you might as well tax me for growing some tomatoes in my garden. They also need sun. What kind of dystopian World would that be?
I meant to apologise in my post as I knew I was giving the answer you wanted me not to
I just don’t see it as a starter that crypto will directly cause us to change the tax model
Today some countries are clamping down on using cash for transactions for tax avoidance reasons. When crypto becomes another way people commit tax evasion they will regulate that too. Banking secrecy has been partially clamped down on already. Use of obscure offshore structures is also on the hit list.
Reform of tax is a valid discussion but a different topic in my opinion