Free Alternative to BCV

Having a salary of around 100-250k but not willing to pay CHF 24 per year for a banking service you are happy with…just my kind of humor lol.

If everyone would have this mindset, nobody in the world would earn anything at all.

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My two rappens:

I’m not sure about the quality and quantity of services provided by BCV (wrt customer service, security, digital, reporting, features like e-bill, etc etc), but major swiss banks spend hundreds of millions per year to provide that functionality.

Let’s not forget that they must have, even only for your basic account, entire departments of IT, Risk, Legal, Regulatory, etc. It’s a heavily regulated industry. The very statement that is sent yearly to the account holders costs several millions to create and send between all involved, and third parties like vendors, consultants, or even just the Postage.

Projects run regularly in the dozens to optimize every possible cost item, it is unlikely they would shift their position of ‘free’ before doing some serious due diligence about their market (unless like digital banks it was a bait from the get go to grow their VC numbers).

We can debate whether the services could be offered for free, as a stepping stone to more lucrative mortgage, loans and investing offerings later on, but the fee requested is quite fair (most likely at a loss). In fact it’s probably also a way to weed out customers who wouldn’t otherwise grow revenues.

I’d contact a representative and ask them if they have any retention policy in place, they may waive the fees for you for one more year (have you been a good customer though? :smiley: ).

PS: I’m not defending banks, especially since many have abysmal corporate and risk governance (imagine how bad it is under the rug, when we only see the worst cases in the news) - like the analogy above, more than Doctors, I’d see them as Hospitals with all the “Services” they can do and the costs of a big, complex, political organization.

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I’m kind of surprised to see this discussion turn this way here, seing as we usually cut hairs lengthwise to try and save 2 cents on some basic fees, spending more in lost time researching alternatives than would otherwise be considered healthy by the rest of society… There are a lot of threads about cheap/free banking solutions around, none of them has elicited such reactions so far.

I’m seconding the Raiffeisen suggestion, but there’s an opportunity cost there too: at least at my branch, you have to own one “share” of the bank, which costs CHF 200 and generates around 2% dividends per year (can vary from one branch to the other). The Maestro isn’t free (as stated by @Barto, it’s CHF 40/year), which could be bypassed by using services like Twint and a fee-less credit card, though you’d get out of luck if you want to withdraw cash from an ATM. So, all in all, a more expensive option than your current BCV deal. I hate the concept of paying monthly fees for a bank account, though, so I’m happy with it.

It’s not excessive and it’s probably very difficult to monetize standard checking accounts but paying <0.1% interests for 3a accounts where the money is stuck longterm or even CDs with a fixed duration that allows for planification on how long the money will be available for the bank to lend it? Come on.

I know they’re not as free as we are to make money with money and must keep some of it safe, which has a cost, but lending money to make money is a core business of most banks. It has become more difficult with negative interests rates, sure, but negative interest rates also means the banks get access to very, very cheap money to lend out. Cheaper than the money we can deposit there, at least, which is part of the problem.

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I have Raiffeisen and I am using it more like my main account now.

You need this card to use Premium services, so I count it as a price for museum pass.

Here as well, transitioning from PF to Raiffeisen. Mainly for the museum pass. AS the cost some how and more and less the same.

We have UBS Family.

We use their credit cards for domestic transactions and use the KeyClub points to fully pay the package.

For credit card transactions abroad we have Neon.

Not talking about you personally, you look like a fair guy. But don’t tell me that banks earn money by charging account fees of 2, 5, or 10 francs per month, I won’t buy it. Banks suppose to earn money by investing money. Sure it is difficult when interests rates are negative, but who are to blame? Central banks maybe? Or maybe financial geniuses that invented subprime mortgage? “Banks” was a synonym of something reliable and banks used to be trusted, but this trust was gone in speculations and corrupted practices that banks were involved in last decades. So don’t be surprised now by the attitude that banks get.

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There are ~90’000 people working in banking in Switzerland. Those people need to be paid, external contractors and the whole infrastructure needs to be paid. The increasing regulations (Fidleg for example) create big costs. Negative interest from the SNB is eating up earnings. You can’t just refinance 10 year mortgages with cash that can be withdrawn tomorrow. Even if you would, mortgage interest rates are so low that they are barerly covering all costs. Banks are actually trying to avoid having too much cash from customers, they don’t want it because it’s actually a losing deal. So the idea of “They have my money, earnings on it should finance my services and thus everything should be for free” is just wrong.

I know that we as a FIRE-community try to optimize the shit out of everything. But goods and services should always require a price, nothing should be really for free. Paying a couple of franks for a product that you are very happy with isn’t a bad thing.

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Sure, I am not arguing with the reality. But don’t be surprised by the attitude!

But this is how free market praised by resident libertarians works! If I found an equivalent (at least for my needs / from my point of view) product for lower price, why would I pay more? So you have to try harder to convince me that your product is better.

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Just one example of what you get by paying 2 CHF instead of 0 CHF. I can’t tell you if it’s worth it, that’s your choice. But the price itself is irrelevant IMO, price/benefit is important.

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Weakly correlated, but how do you deal with changing your bank?

You have to communicate the new IBAN to everyone, redirect all the ebills, etc…? What If you forget someone? Do you still keep the old account for like 1 year to be sure that everything is going correctly?

Isn’t it a big time investment?

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Ebills are linked to your “Ebill account”. If you enable Ebills in different banks, you’ll get notified by all of them and you see all pending or also paid Ebills in every app.

So you just have to inform a couple of companies like your place of work, health insurance etc.

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When I switched from Raiffeisen to Neon the time needed was negligible. E-Bill you just have to enable as @Cortana wrote. Then I had one LSV which I had to change and I needed to inform my employer.

That’s all I did, I didn’t keep the old account. I didn’t have any issues.

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I agree in the last part, if you are happy with the service 2 CHF does not make difference.

Banks are making a billions every year. But that’s true that the earnings are getting smaller.

That’s an interesting point of view, never thought about that :thinking:

But do you have to spend a lot with their credit card in order to cover their CHF 15.- montlhy fees (CHF 180.- annual fees) ?

It’s been a while since I ran the numbers last time, but it checks out for us.

We use the UBS credit card for everything domestic. We don’t miss a single opportunity to collect points: Buy a loaf of bread at the local baker, pay a couple francs for the parking lot, pay the mobile phone subscription, everything. And it’s comfortable, with Apple Pay even more so. Then, once in a year, my gf transfers her KeyClub points to me and I pay the package.

A single person of course could do the same. :slight_smile:

Check out these links:

https://keyclubestore.ubs.com

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Only if you’re forced to visit me in order to live in the actual society, and I can take one of your kidneys, keep it and lend it to other people at a 0.8 - 9% interest rate whenever I want. :smiley:

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It might be over-optimisation…I admit that I won’t be ruined by paying 2CHF/month for my bank account.
But why do so while I can - possibly, hence the topic - have the same service for free? We are, after all, in a frugal,mustachian forum…

About the cost-opportunity : I basically use my bank account as an emergency-fund and a cash-cushion, so it served both the use of my financial safety and making my bank account free of charge.

Do doctors offer loss-leading services, because “Hey, I’ll treat you for free, cause I can make money on other patients? Or from the kickbacks I’ll receive for meds from Big Pharma” ? :
yes we do, lots of treatments or follow-up regimens aren’t at all cost-effective and they are not the best “financially speaking” for the doctor either. But it is done anyways because money is not the most important aspect of health (at least until recently…)

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And who exactly told you I gain that much? I’m not working in finance :wink:

More seriously and less acidly, I consider I’m already paying BCV, indirectly, around 3-5%/year as they lend or invest my money

If you do know how a bank can get 3-5% returns on consumer deposit, I’d encourage you to start one (it would be extremely successful given the amount of cash people would love to put in a bank with no negative interests).

Banks lose money on deposits at the moment (and try to recover it through banking fees and now negative interests). Banks get money on the financial products they sell you (funds, etc.), not on the deposits.

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