It seems that it is the case according someone I know, but only when you have the nationality (it is the same thing as “indigen preference” for the job in geneva)
Last I heard this was no longer possible in Geneva unless schooling had already started. Disclaimer: I am not following the debate in detail so may not know the latest status and there may be loopholes too
Overall regards living in France vs. Geneva. My conclusion is that if you are at the start of your career with low net wealth then it is cheaper to live in France. At a certain point when your net wealth increases it becomes cheaper to live in Geneva because taxes become a factor.
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Hi !
Well I consider our wealth net “interesting” (savings, real estate, invests)
Otherwise our gross income is ok (200k/y) for fribourg canton while working in Geneva (home office) but not at the level of things you see on the forum (500k, etc)
I am desperately trying to find someome / an independant expert which would be able to drive us into an overall right decision. I am very well in Switzerland.
Tax on salary will presumable be comparable if you live in GE or France.
The taxes on wealth(*) , dividends and capital gains tax will probably be higher in France. Perhaps there is someone living in France on the forum could advise you
(*)Wealth tax France
| Fraction Taxable | Rate of Tax |
|---|---|
| €0 - €800,000 | 0% |
| €800,000 - €1,300,000 | 0.50% |
| €1,300,000 - €2,570,000 | 0.70% |
| €2,570,000 - €5,000,000 | 1% |
| €5,000,000 - €10,000,000 | 1.25% |
| €10,000,000+ | 1.50% |
There is no wealth tax in France on your complete wealth, only on real estate value. However it starts only at a value of 1.3 MEUR. The tax rates you show is actually the tax rates on real estate value. Primary residence is taken at -30% of value (meaning your primary residence has to be at least 1.8 MEUR to be submitted to wealth tax, if you do not have any other real estate). From what I have seen in the market, real estate for normal families is often much cheaper than that (except Paris region, but normal people can barely afford it ther anyway).
Taxes on dividends and capital gains is flat tax of 30% (of which actually are 17.2% social contributions and 12.8% taxes. However, you can ask the 12.8% part to be taxed as revenue if this is interisting for you.
However there is the tool of the PEA, which allows you to invest 150’000 EUR. Afther 5 years, you can take the money back without paying taxes, only the social contribution part (the 17.2%).
Furthermore, if you live in France and work in Switzerland, and you are insured in Switzerland for AHV and health insurance, you pay only 7.5% of social contribution.
(fuck it is complicated).
I researched all that because I would like to Fire in France because I would like to make some projects, which seem impossible in Switzerland but would be easy in comparison in France.
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What would approximately be the critical threshold at which it becomes cheaper to live in Geneva?
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Great question ! happy to see the answers !
Based on @Patirou’s I would have to retract my statement: no wealth tax on shares and max 30% tax on dividends is ok
On the other hand there is capital gains tax and inheritance tax
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It is the same tax than the dividends (all gains on capital, be it value gain or dividend is taxed at the same rate). Again there is the possibility to choose for normal income tax level on 12.8% part if this is in your interest.
Correct. But actually this is the universal health insurance when you are not working (if you are working or retired, it is done via the salary/retirement pension). For 40kEUR income, you pay 105 EUR/month as a single person (and gives you access to healthcare, personnaly I feel it is a pretty good deal).
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So you are qu’il planning to get an activity in France if you decide to retire early.
Not everyone plan to do the same so you need to take it into consideration until you hit the retirement age (62 y.o.).
I think there is some misunderstanding here.
I am just saying that
a/with Puma you actually get healthinsurance if you are not working (which would be otherwise paid via your salary/retirement)
b/you can choose to be taxed as per your income tax level on capital gains (dividends/value increase). So lets assume you have 40k dividend/value gain and no other income. If the taxation as per income is lower than 12.8% (lets say 7%) than you can choose to be taxed at 7% instead of the flat 12.8%. Basically the capital gain tax is a percentage cap.
This has nothing to do with having a professional activity.
It’s easy to get around this tax if you rent out real estate that generates at least 8000€ in rental income per year.
To get around it, you will need to create your company (like a SASU ) and generate an activity from rental as LMP or from your dividends.
You need to collect at least a monthly salary of 800 euros.
Your company will need to pay social charges on this salary so you can add another 800 euros.
I love the simplicity of Switzerland 
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Hi folks,
I am currently asking myself similar questions as the one raised in this conversation so far.
We are today in Geneva and we are aiming at buying our main residence but we are hesitating between France (Pays de Gex) or Switzerland (Geneva or Vaud).
To decide, there is of course qualitative aspects and lifestyle preferences to take into consideration.
However, I would like to better understand the financial impacts of such a choice and identify what are the most interesting options financially speaking but also according to our personal projects (ex: invest in a secondary house in xx years, we plan to have kids and get married, etc).
What i believe would be useful for me is to have a complete financial and wealth plan to compare the different options.
I have tried already to build a plan but the view was too narrow. I have a few notions but i don’t believe I have the expertise neither the time to learn everything i need then to build a full and holistic view in one doc on such a complex topic.
With this in mind i don’t know if an independent financial/wealth advisor can do that?
I imagine the question is not new for them in the Geneva/Ain region.
What do you think?
What would be your recommendations?
Tks
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