FIRE Calculator

Hi to all,

I would appreciate feedback on this FIRE calculator we’ve created on moneyland.ch:
https://www.moneyland.ch/en/fire-calculator

The idea behind the calculator is to create awareness of FIRE in Switzerland, hence the relatively simple calculations designed for the common man.

Users can calculate time needed until FIRE based on income and expenses, or savings required to reach FIRE within a desired time frame.

Thanks in advance

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  • Inflation is not accounted for in calculations. Returns on capital investments are only calculated up to the point of financial independence. Calculations assume that annual returns are added to capital at the end of each year rather than at the beginning of each year. Results are rounded to the second decimal.

Why do you assume no invested capital gains after FIRE ? That is actually the whole point that the money last “infinitely”…
Furthermore I would express expenses as yearly, so people don’t forget large singular expenses (health insurance, taxes etc.)

Maybe look at the calculator of networthify or others which give a good starting point, also with some options to mingle around.

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They are popping up all over. There is also another here: https://thepoorswiss.com/free-fire-calculator/#more-6225

Thanks Patirou, and your points are all valid.

Accounting for inflation/deflation and perpetual annuities would be easy as we already have those calculators and can easily work them in:
https://www.moneyland.ch/en/inflation-calculator
https://www.moneyland.ch/en/perpetual-annuity-calculator

But what about these scenarios, which are kind of specific to Switzerland:

  • You want to provide yourself with an income from a certain age until you can claim your AHV/BVG pensions. For example, you may want to retire early at 40 with enough money to last you until age 65.
  • You could not possibly save enough to live off perpetual annuities (I know I could not), but you can save enough to retire early with enough money to live on for the rest of your life (or until you receive your pensions).

Without asset allocation and probability of success, this is just too arbitrary and general. Based on a sample test, it seems that you’re assuming that the SWR should be 3.33% for 30 years retirements. That’s conservative by many measures. Then yo say that it doesn’t include inflation. But the trinity study tells us that not accounting for inflation raises the SWR to 7% for a balanced portfolio. So I don’t see any basis for the numbers you’re outputing.

Nice work on the calculator thepoorswiss. My idea with including FIRE information on moneyland.ch is to try and lend a bit of weight to the concept of FIRE in Switzerland i.e. among non-English speakers, as the concept is still pretty new and unheard of here. At the same time, there is an alarming trend towards heavy dependence on the state for retirement financing. I believe that trend is reversible.

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Thanks triviamaster. Asset allocation and probability of success would be interesting but the variables would be infinite. Inflation/deflation and returns on uncomsumed capital during financial independence should be easy to include.

Would you also find annual expenses preferable to monthly expenses. My assumption was that the average Joe who doesn’t already think FIRE might have an easier time with monthly income and expenses. But I agree with Patirou that there are annual expenses which would have to be broken down to be accounted for, which isn’t practical.

Good point Daniel.

I think a very nice and specific calculator for switzerland should also ask your last salaries and/or try to guess the AHV at 65 (probably you need to also ask how much should be paid on the AHV between that date and the 65y birthday. This way you can show how much we need to give the AHV until 65 and then show how much the AHV pays from 64 onward to show that the retirement money needed after 65 is lower.

The only way to calculate precisely is to ask AHV what we paid until now, fill the online calculator found on admin.ch , fill the remaining year with the minimum/correct amount and then we will see how much we will “save” from 65 onward. I’m pretty sure no one will ever be able to live with just that.

Btw. do you think you should call yourself Daniel_moneyland ? I wonder if it’s important to know that you worko (and represent?) moneyland here. It’s more for feedback issues rather than you selling stuff I believe.

AHV could be included, but would require a lot of sensitive info i.e. personal wealth, civil status, years spent (or to be spent) as a housewife/husband, etc. I think that would overwhelm most people.

Re moneyland, I wouldn’t want the burden of representing moneyland here as it’s polically correct and I’m not :joy: . That’s why I write my own blog. But I’ll add links to useful information just because I know the content that well. The FIRE calculator is a pet project of mine at the moment, and I figure this is were I can get the most relevant feedback.

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Thanks for sharing :slight_smile: Let me know if you have questions.

@Daniel That looks really good. I would have added a withdrawal percentage because it would allow more or less conservative retirement. I am guessing you use 4% by default?

Nice calculator, I like the Moneyland website a lot.

On the topic on FIRE calculators, I’ve been thinking for a while about a measure that would allow to compare people with different income and tax situation. My idea was to use a Current Savings / Future Expenses ratio (CSFE).

CSFE = Current Savings / Future Expenses

Current Savings: we don’t care about your gross income or your savings ratio. What counts is how much you’re able to save each month.
Future Expenses: we also don’t care about your current expenses, taxes, etc. We need your expected monthly expenses once you retired.

An example would be CSFE = 3000 / 3000 = 1
I would say that a ratio of 1 would mean you’re doing a good job, 2 = great job, 3 = amazing job.

People with the same ratio head towards FIRE at the same pace and would need the same number of years to reach it. What do you think?

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