Finpension (2nd/3rd pillar investing)

In short, if you hide your assets when doing so such things → not a happy ending.

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If your voluntary contributions are e.g. 100k and you are maxing that out despite you have FZG assets, this is a scenario I would avoid at any time.

Since I do not and never will contribute to the 2nd pillar, this will not affect me. But for anyone with a very high marginal tax rate or for someone who has a high trust in the 2nd pillar - I would not voluntarily contribute to it, honestly. This will only give discussions.

I did this 1.5 years ago, in the new job they gave me a form to submit to my old job’s 2nd Pillar provider, along with a QR code for the transfer. I just signed and sent it to the old and very soon the funds were transferred to the new one.

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It’s stronger than that: you must have it transferred. The law is pretty clear:

Full text of the law:
[DE] Bundesgesetz über die Freizügigkeit in der beruflichen Alters-, Hinterlassenen- und Invalidenvorsorge (Freizügigkeitsgesetz, FZG): Fedlex

[FR] Loi fédérale sur le libre passage dans la prévoyance professionnelle vieillesse, survivants et invalidité (Loi sur le libre passage, LFLP): Fedlex

[IT] Legge federale sul libero passaggio nella previdenza professionale per la vecchiaia, i superstiti e l’invalidità (Legge sul libero passaggio, LFLP): Fedlex

Relevant articles (3 and 4) loosely translated by yours truly:

Art. 3:
“If the employee joins another pension fund, the previous pension fund must pay the exit benefits to that new pension fund.”

→ If the employee changes jobs without a delay, there is no leeway for them to decide that some of it should join a vested benefit account, the whole exit benefits have to be transferred to the new pension fund. The obligation falls on the previous pension fund but the employee must give accurate information.

Art. 4
"If the employee doesn’t join another pension fund, they must notify their pension fund on what admissible form they intend to maintain their pension coverage.

[…]

If the employee joins another pension fund, the entity holding their vested benefits transfers the vested benefits to the new pension fund so as to maintain coverage. The insured person notifies:
a. the entity holding their vested benefits that they are joining a new pension fund;
b. the new pension fund what the name of the entity holding their vested benefits is and how they are held."

To sum up:

  1. All 2nd pillar assets must join the new pension fund whenever someone joins them (gets a new employer).

  2. The actual obligation falls on the previous pension fund or the entity that is holding the vested benefits.

  3. The employee must diligently and faithfully inform both parties so that they can execute on their obligations.

There is no legal grey area on the matter: whenever one is insured in a pension fund through their employer, all assets must be transfered to that pension fund. No vested benefits can lawfully be kept outside of it.

The question of how it is enforced and who will actually know if you willfully don’t perform your information duties is another question, and may be qualified as a grey area. The global answer, to me, would be:

Q: Am I allowed to keep part of my assets on a vested benefit account if I am employed?

A: no, you have to notify the entity(ies) holding your pension assets with information on your new pension fund and they have to transfer the assets to the new pension fund in full.

Q: Who will check if I am lying or willfully ommiting to inform a party I am legally bound to inform of my actual employment situation?

A: Asking the question is showing intent to voluntarily act beyond the law → that is not something I would expect to be discussed on a lawful open forum operating under Swiss law.

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Oh here we go again.

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Note if you have a 1 million CHF purchase capacity in your employer’s 2nd pillar, 50 k CHF in a vested benefit account and you make a 20k CHF buy back, you may have broken the law but you have not cheated any taxes.

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Just trying to transfer a Finpension 3A to VIAC 3a. The responsiveness of Finpension is simply terrible. Didn’t receive such bad service with any 3A player ever. I wonder if they are simply completely under-staffed, or if there is something wrong with their processes. So far, three escalations and still no clear projection how long things will still take.

Witnessed the contrary, they were always very responsive. Not sure about your case.
But why are you moving from finpension to Viac?

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Consolidating among the two players as I want less complexity. VIAC is more attractive for me (as a balanced investor) as VIAC allows me to hold some part of the assets in cash. Cash is more attractive than money market investments. Ran comparison portfolio with the same asset allocation (Money Market with FP; Cash with VIAC) and surprise surprise, VIAC delivered a better total return.

With regard to the transfer, its getting a bit ridiculous. Sold all funds on 02 July, transactions were settled on 04 July and since that, I am the owner of a Non-Interest Cash account that they just don’t manage to transfer. No-one can tell me what the problem was, they indicated that they were simply overloaded.

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Switched from Viac to finpension couple of weeks before; Viac updated me about every step (received the cancellation letter, selling of securities, transfer of assets) - at least for Viac you can expect a nice service.

But having 99% in USD securities was more important for me, therefore finpension.

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Agreed, VIAC provides a very smooth transfer experience. Know that from a prior asset consolidation I did a while back.

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Agreed

There is no point of hiding assets. At some point it would become a problem and then there would be more issues

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Transfered both 2nd and 3rd pillar from FP to Viac s month ago. Smooth process and very gentle support from their Geneva Office in French. The whole process took 10 days only!

Compare to 6 months with my GF 3A by BCV…

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Day 18 here. The money disappeared from Finpension yesterday. But it doesn’t appear on VIAC. This is a trully remarkable experience :smiley:

Viac in Contrast… they traded, waited until the trades were settled (2 days later) and another 24 hours later the money was on the new Third Pillar. Here - it takes 7 days post the settlement of the trades for the money to disappear yet not re-appear elsewhere :smiley:

Because this isn‘t a direct transfer to your account, it‘s normal. It arrived at Viac, they need to process it first.

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Agree. At this stage you also don’t know who is lagging; VIAC or Finpension. Now its probably VIACs turn to process it.

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Transferring my custody account from UBS to PF (Swissquote) took 2 months since I submitted the form to UBS, and for a day or so there was no position in either account :wink:

I guess the worst part is getting a forced suboptimal allocation/utilization as money is just sitting…somewhere in the ether and not being used.

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Maybe @finpension wants to respond

Let’s check back in a month for the response :stuck_out_tongue:

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Finpension is currently doing a lot of advertising for https://finpension.ch/en/invest/ on YouTube and Instagram. So it wouldn’t surprise me if they just have a bit too much work at the moment.

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