Ok but it needs to be come from two separate vested benefits in the first place. So It would not work if you split after you leave your job.
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I started working when I was 25 and I am now almost 40. My salary has been always above 61K (currently 140K) . So, the maximum regulatory benefits for me would 9 (years until 34)* 7%*61K+6(years after 34)*10%*61K=75K. In my current pension fund of my employer, there is almost 240K. Does it mean that I can invest the 240-75=165K in vested benefits accounts when I change the employer at the end of the year?
That’s more or less what he meant and suggested - but not what the law allows (he’s wrong about that).
You’re not allowed to deliberately split between your new pension fund and a vested benefits account.
Doesn’t this post from Finpesion suggest the same thing as Cortana does?
The statement “Obligatory transfer is only about the mandatory part. 7% / 10% / 15% / 18% of your insured salary” is very much about conforming with law and regulations. What he was saying is that you could legally transfer only (the mandatory) part of your pension fund benefits to the new pension fund. That is, to my knowledge and the sources provided, not true.
Is is technically possible to violate the law? Sure, just as you can evade taxes. You may even get away with it.
Again, no. Non-mandatory pension benefits are (usually) part of the maximum benefits according to the pension fund’s regulations.
Now, pension funds ususally do set a certain limit for maximum benefits (progressing with age), which will be a “cap” on maximum you can transfer from your old pension fund and/or pay in voluntarily. And, yes, someone can surpass this maximum with his portable benefits from his old employer’s pension fund. Maybe even you. You may have to transfer to vested benefits account then.
But the maximum amount of benefits according your pension fund’s regulation is not to be confused with the BVG maximum.
Furthermore, your new pension fund’s regulations don’t have to limit yearly savings contributions to the minimums set by the BVG law. They can be higher than 7%/10%/15%/18 or cover a higher salary.
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PS: See this example from Profond (for a person born in 1965, but gets the points across):
- Sparskala exceeds legal minimum percentages
- …and applies to salary of 120’000/year (again exceeding legal minimum)
The maximum amount benefits for the 40-year old in 2005 would have been 201’646 CHF according to pension fund regulations. Sure, it may only be an example - but the amount is much higher than the maximum amount according to BVG (the same 1965-born person would be age 56 in 2021, and in 2005 have had a maximum of BVG benefits of 77909 CHF).
TL;DR: You are required to transfer pension benefits to your new pension fund up to the maximum provided by its regulations and insurance plan. The fund’s maximum amount will usually (far) exceed the maximum of “obligatory@ benefits according to BVG law.
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I need some opinions from you guys.
Back in summer 2020 I changed employers for a short time and thus opened up a Finpension account where I left my 2nd pillar invested for the last 4 years. Those 17.9k grew to 25k (+40%) in the meantime. Now I‘m debating if I should transfer those assets to my pension fund.
Usually that wouldn‘t be a good idea with low returns, but my pension fund is different. Very high Deckungsgrad (over 140%) and young age structure. The interest in the last 3 years was in the 7.0-9.5% range and they plan to repeat this in the next 3-4 years.
Not sure what to do. Transfer those 25k back? Leave it there and just use cash/ETF assets?
8% low-risk, tax free? Easy decision.
What is the asset mix of the PF?
If you are so certain about the future development, sure, transfer.
You will have to transfer anyway before you can pay in more into the 2nd pillar…
Of course 8% risk and tax free sounds amazing. But how long are they going to sustain this? Pension funds aren’t allowed to invest more than 45% in stocks. So my stock portfolio has a higher expected return than my pension fund? What if I get 8% for the next 4 years and then 3% for the next 20-30 years?
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Then follow the assets allocation.
Or use mortgage repayment as an exit option.
I haven‘t run the numbers on 25% onetime (paying in and saving taxes), 3-4 years 8% and 20 years 3%. Compared to 23-24 years 6%.
Can a person have a vested benefits account while being employed and keeping the 2nd pillar with the pension fund of the current employer?
Is it not mandatory to move all the money to the PF of the new employer when changing jobs?
Because this could provide an opportunity to even invest 2nd pillar savings in the market every time there is a change in employer.
I did that. You should transfer your 2nd pillar assets to your new pension fund, but nobody can really enforce that. I didn‘t 4 years ago and nobody asked.
FYI if they would have asked:
Auf keinen Fall sollten Vorsorgeguthaben verschwiegen werden, um mehr steuerwirksame Einkäufe in die Pensionskasse zu tätigen. Wenn diese Unterschlagung ans Licht kommt, wird nicht nur eine Nachsteuer fällig, sondern auch eine Busse, die ein Mehrfaches der Nachsteuer betragen kann.
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I did that as well and aiming to continue so.
Even with bad years at the stock market I have higher returns with the FZG account.
Moreover, if I die and if I am still up to date, these assets are not lost but part of my wealth to be distributed.
But yes, I have the same thoughts as Cortana, regularly, but the difference is, my pension fund has much lower interest rate (ca. 2.5% p.a.).
I am asking because I will change my employer at the end of the year and it could be possibility to do that
my current PF has even worse returns of 1.5% but I just want to be sure if legally this is allowed
It is a grey zone: you should transfer it to your new pension fund but there is no penalty.
When I changed the job couple of years ago, I got the invoice with the IBAN to inform my new pension fund to transfer the funds there - never did that. Instead, I informed my old penion fund to transfer the funds to my FZG. BUT: there was a break of one month between the termination and the new start date of the job.
I will change the job in September - but without a break. I have to check how to deal with it, since - as I know - in such cases the new pension fund will get in touch with my current pension fund automatically (but maybe it is bro science, I have to check that in detail).
They aren’t. You have to tell your old one what to do with the assets. They don’t know if you are unemployed or already working again 
How would topping up the 2nd pillar work? AFAIK they calculate what you could have contributed had you had your current salary since the start and then they allow you to deposit the difference to what you have now.
But if half is in a vested benefits account the current pension fund knows nothing about, you could deposit much more than you would be allowed?