One option for someone to talk to may be Vermögenszentrum.
They don’t sell their own investment products, but services.
They commonly sell packages charged at some % of invested amounts which is “expensive” (for mustachians) esp. in the long term, but they do/will also simply sell their services/know-how at an hourly rate.
If you are clear what services you want & make it clear to them this is what you want and nothing else, maybe investigate this option.
I don’t believe you will gain more and better knowledge than from this and similar forums, but it will be face to face & with a personal touch.
The debate reminds us all of the importance of having competent and independent advice on your approach to retirement: e.g. pension Vs capital withdraw. for those who do not trust banks for that, is VermögensZentrum reliable and competent enough? any direct experience welcome - thank you
Although I’ve been reading up a lot about investing / taxes / AHV & pillars 2 & 3 (thanks to this forum !), I wonder if it might make sense to additionally consult an advisor just to make sure I’ve optimized everything I can in my current situation.
I’ve read some posts on advisory here: there do not seem to exist any truly independent, fiduciary advisors in Switzerland. Of course, I’d never even think of going to a bank or insurance, but apparently, even fee-only advisors cannot be trusted (https://finpension.ch/de/unabhaengige-finanzberatung/)
Has anyone had experience (positive or negative) with financial advisors? Also, does anyone know if Vermögenszentrum (VZ) is trustworthy?
My perfect advisor would have a holistic view of my situation: He/she’d not only be competent financially, but also in tax and pension issues. I’ll happily spend a few 100 Fr. for an advisor if that saves me some more bucks in the long run.
In my opinion, a one-off consultation from a tax advisor (not a financial advisor) who specializes in your canton’s and municipality’s tax laws can be beneficial. They can help you optimize your taxes and calculate tax scenarios applicable to retirement saving (i.e. local capital withdrawal taxes for early pillar 2 and 3a withdrawals for home purchases). There is no real financial incentive for a tax advisor to mess you around, since they aren’t selling you any products.
I don’t personally see a lot of sense in using a financial advisor, unless they specialize in a very specific field. You can find at least as much information yourself online, and you can compare most financial products yourself online as well. So there’s little added value, and you run the risk of being marketed sub-optimal products.
The greatest trick the bank(s) pulled: Convincing the customer that he should pay a percentage fee based on portfolio value each year. On what is basically a (CH-centric) run-of-the-mill portfolio.
1.25%/year * CHF 250’000 = CHF 3’125/year.
What do we get for that?
custody/deposit of securities cost? How much is that worth? Let’s say a CHF 125 a year. (example: CHF 108/year at TradeDirect, from a Swiss cantonal bank, or CHF 72/year at PostFinance)
trading costs? Not much, if any, trading is needed after the initial set-up, if you keep it invested in investment funds (including ETFs), is there? Let’s assume, for the sake of the argument, that he incurs CHF 500/year in trading costs (which would turn over the entire portfolio value once a year, if held in one position - or otherwise allow for any reinvestments or additional investments, even at generous Swiss prices)
…which would leave CHF 2’500/year on other costs.
Now, I don’t know what banking advisors’ (@Cortana’s?) calculated hourly rate would be. To pull a figure out of my a**, I’d say CHF 200/hour does not sound unreasonable, if we’re talking a portfolio that more of less follows the blueprint for a boring retail customer and his Swiss-centric portfolio. So 2’500 would pay 12 hours of consultation time - or one hour a month. Which poses the question:
Does the customer get his money’s worth of attention and attendance? Does he see and speak with his investment advisor bank salesperson an hour each month?
I’d argue that (above a certain portfolio value) such advice would better be purchased on-demand, at hourly rates. Not as percentage fees on portfolio value that are also charged for and when doing nothing.
My earlier estimate of CHF 200/hour and 12 hours/year actually seems a good reference or “anchor” price, when you look at fee-based advice. See for example vermoegenspartner.ch here: They offer portfolio analysis at CHF 180/hour (plus tax) and state that even quite complex portfolios should rarely exceed 12 hours.
I’m in no way affiliated with them, just googled for Honorarberatung and quickly found this article. Florian Schubiger, one of their founders has also appeared as an expert on SRF Kassensturz a couple of times.
In the case of the investor above, not only would he receive more independent and unbiased advice. But also certainly need less than 12 hours - and not every year (with a passive portfolio).
He would then be free to implement his portfolio with his bank of choice - maybe even the Raiffeisen Bank he’s already with and seems to trust (at 0.25% safekeeping fee per year).
Hi Everyone! I am searching for an independent advisor who can review my finances and pension status and tell me where I am currently, and what do I need to ensure that I have a decent income when I retire (I am 48yo). I’ve tried talking to a couple of folks, but all I get is someone selling me various investment solutions. After a couple of bad experiences, that resulted in lost money, I just want a honest review and possible solutions, without feeling coerced into an activity with them. Many thanks for any recommendation and Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays!
the very limited experience I have in this regard was with Ansprechpartner - SFSC - Swiss Finance Service Center after they did some general finance seminars through ETH. I perceived them as quite professional and knowledgeable, although we were not talking about pension planning at this time. They do offer that.
The one thing that made me walk away was that they systematically pushed 3rd pillar life insurance products to academic personell (PhDs, PostDocs, Students) through this channel. One of those cases is described in detail here. People from that target group very likely leave the country after a few years, so these (already borderline scam products) are especially bad for them.
When confronted about this, they became extremely defensive, and we never interacted again.
The “Lehrmeinung” says you should look for an advisor paid by the hour, but i have yet to find one that won’t converge to selling stuff.
They have their own bank and their own investment solutions, some of which are (or at least were) relatively heavy on fees, not much better than traditional banks. Depending on what kind of consultation you have, they push you towards their own solutions. So I don’t consider them independent.
Maybe it would be possible to get a consultation that essentially ignores VZ’s own solutions and they certainly do offer financial planning, they don’t only sell their own products. However, based on my experience (nearly 10 years ago) I would at least be very cautious and not generally recommend it.
I consulted with Vermögens Partner and liked what I got.
It’s not cheap, though.
I worked with Carlo Picecchi (who now works for a different company) who I experienced as very competent.
Mr Picecchi now also offers private independent consulting (not via his new company) which is probably more tailored and likely also cheaper. If you’re interested in the latter DM me for his private email address.
There are some attempts, such as finpact.ch.
But I guess problem is that people that are willing to pay (relatively) high fees of VZ are in general less confident in their financial knowledge, hence they prefer to go with the big one.
If you actually start thinking about saving costs, it’s not that far to DIY and skip those cheaper alternatives in the middle.
If it’s just advice, I wonder what people would consider a fair price (I didn’t think VZ were very expensive for that, good financial advisors aren’t cheap, I even thought the advice part of their business might not be making much money already).
(Tailored financial advice runs in the 10k+ range when I was looking into it)
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!), I wonder if it might make sense to additionally consult an advisor just to make sure I’ve optimized everything I can in my current situation.
Does the customer get his money’s worth of attention and attendance? Does he see and speak with his 