Ed in Lausanne in Kanton Waadt personal numbers

[Ed_Waadt]

@Wolverine

It’s nice reading your thoughts and numbers. It looks to me that you’re doing good.

Hi there!

Thanks for your nice words, it’s always encouraging.

@Wolverine

I’d mainly stay on the look-out for a better, cheaper place to live in but not jump horses until you’ve found a place where you are willing to spend your time.

Spot on. The rent is one of the rare luxuries that we allow ourselves. I try to go everywhere on foot or by bike (electric here with the hills…). We’re always scanning all the typical sites, but decent apartments are way too expensive or would require we buy a car and that’s a big no-no. Still, it’s expensive so we might need to focus on earning more rather than spending 200-400 less on rent.

@Wolverine

electricity and your internet plan look expensive to me

There is not much we can do with electricity. We use LED bulbs and try to turn electronics completely off when not used (not in stand-by mode). We cook a lot and use the oven quite often. That’s maybe why?

The Internet plan was indeed expensive and we have recently switched to one where we pay less that 10.- each.

@Wolverine

Out of curiosity, what is a mustachian savings rate for you?

I would say at least 40% after taxes.

@Wolverine

And out of even more curiosity, how’s your asset allocation doing these days (have you “got it under control” in 2019 as you planned)? [Strike]Nothing wrong with single stocks in my book as long as you keep yourself diversified and avoid paying too many fees on them[/Strike] ( edit: nevermind, I see that you’re not happy with their performance. Indexes all the way, then!).

Well, yes and no. I found myself obsessing too much about numbers and net worth which is why I simplified (and still am) simplifying my asset allocation by putting almost everything in indices. That said, I like to play my “views” and even though I only know the basics of equity valuation I take that small part of the portfolio as a game.

My performance is not great I’m -11.16% overall all time right now as computed by GNUCash. I’m exploring and migrating to other tools so that I can compute annual time-weighted performance. My figure is -4.30% annualized returns right now including funds, indices and stock-picking but excluding some fixed-income investments.

I know I owe you all the 2019 figures but I’m ashamed as I was preparing for an exam and I indulged a bit too much. Now in 2020 I’m preparing a personal project and my computer broke so the “software and electronics” is bad again. I will let you know soon

[Wolverine]

Feeling in your shoes a lot! Starting my investment career, getting a hold of my fixed expenses, dealing with debt (quickly but it still takes time) and almost ready to go, here. The 40% mustachian savings rate seems achievable.

Don’t let shame get in the way, we’re here for improvement, you’d laugh at my food spending (used to be 500.-/mo before the Corona crisis, single, includes groceries and restaurants). How did the exam go?

@Ed_Waadt

There is not much we can do with electricity. We use LED bulbs and try to turn electronics completely off when not used (not in stand-by mode). We cook a lot and use the oven quite often. That’s maybe why?

Is your electricity accounted separately than the other apartments? Are you heated eletrically? Do you use a lot of hot water (the water heater is what cost me a lot in my former place)? You’ve mentioned that your régie hasn’t given you any money back on heating in 2018, is it because you’ve heated a lot or may it be that they don’t account for it adequately?

Thinking of it, I’m comparing apples to oranges: my landlord hasn’t set different water heaters for the two apartments in the house (one is his) so he’s paying the full electricity bill coming with it. My numbers are probably on the low side of things (heating on the other hand…).

Edit: typo.

[Ed_Waadt]

@Wolverine

Is your electricity accounted separately than the other apartments? Are you heated eletrically? Do you use a lot of hot water (the water heater is what cost me a lot in my former place)? You’ve mentioned that your régie hasn’t given you any money back on heating in 2018, is it because you’ve heated a lot or may it be that they don’t account for it adequately?

So I actually got some money back from the régie which is why the costs are down in 2019 (see below). Electricity is just for my appartment but it does not include heating costs. However when it gets really hot in the summer we use portable air conditioning units that are quite power hungry. If this is not the source maybe some other appliance like the old oven or the old fridge may be the culprits. I would be interested to know where you live and how much you pay (or how many kWh you use).

I guess it’s time. May I present you 2019:

Actually doing worse than in 2018! But I got a salary increase so overall my savings rate has improved.

@Wolverine

you’d laugh at my food spending (used to be 500.-/mo before the Corona crisis, single, includes groceries and restaurants).

Or not. If I add my coffee, groceries, lunch at work and restaurants categories up I get an unhealthy 499.79/mo in my case.

@Wolverine

How did the exam go?

I passed. Thanks for asking!

[dbu]

@Ed_Waadt

I get an unhealthy 499.79/mo in my case.

You guys are exaggerating with these attributes IMO.

My groceries + work lunch (and snacks) + restaurants (and drinks) amount to approx. 250+300+200 per normal non-corona month, and I don’t think that’s overly excessive or “unhealthy”.

4-5 bigger visits to the grocery shop (in CH) each month, 20ish days at work, dining out & drinks with friends once or twice a week - and the above numbers seem realistic; and nothing I wish to cut further on.

But of course, as usual, to each their own (perspective).
It’s commendable to try and optimize as much as possible.
I just don’t personally see the value in “overdoing” it after some point.

[Ed_Waadt]

@dbu

But of course, as usual, to each their own (perspective).
It’s commendable to try and optimize as much as possible.
I just don’t personally see the value in “overdoing” it after some point.

Agreed!

One has to enjoy life and as you can see I’m quite generous with gifts and friends, no regrets there! Even if I went +1700% up with alcohol or +200% with gifts (including charities) I would do that again no wonder.

What I’d like to optimize are those expenses that are useless (like paying for an expensive provider when an equivalent one is cheaper or buying electronics I don’t really need) or that stem from laziness (like ordering in just because without really enjoying the meal).

Thanks guys for your input, sharing this here helps.

[investinghero]

@Ed_Waadt

What I’d like to optimize are those expenses that are useless (like paying for an expensive provider when an equivalent one is cheaper or buying electronics I don’t really need) or that stem from laziness (like ordering in just because without really enjoying the meal).

Small comment to add here - our food vice is pizza.

We recently purchased a pizza stone (30ish chf) for the oven, and after a few weeks experimenting with dough recipes and topping combinations have a fantastic takeaway pizza replacement.

The homemade version really rivals the 25chf equivalent, but with a price point of a couple (max) chf per pizza. We’ve reduced the takeaways considerably as a result, and now favor the home version (less greasy cheese… etc)

Plus, it’s quite fun to spend time learning and crafting a new skill with your S.O.

[Wolverine]

Kuddos on the exams and the salary increase!

@Ed_Waadt

I would be interested to know where you live and how much you pay (or how many kWh you use).

Soooo, there is a fun thing about being over-excited and interpolating yearly data from only a 6 months serie… I failed to account for months without electricity bills at the end of last year. My bill for 2019 was roughly 550.- (46.-/mo Wallis, Romande Energie, roughly 2000 kWh). That’s more aligned with my actual consumption so I should have been more cautious regarding my previous numbers.

@Ed_Waadt

Or not. If I add my coffee, groceries, lunch at work and restaurants categories up I get an unhealthy 499.79/mo in my case.

Yeah, my coffee bill is around 40.-/mo too. Got a rough year? (I’ve got the very unhealthy habit to drink coffee whenever I need to get in any kind of efficiency zone.)

I’m also thrilled to find someone with as big gifting expenses as myself.

@dbu

You guys are exaggerating with these attributes IMO.

I agree with you on the principle, it’s just that I’m a rather social averse person so I was pretty amazed by the expenses once I’ve started tracking them. The ideal way to handle it is to balance the spent amount with the pleasure/joy received, discounting any amount of joy decrease we may feel by overtracking these amounts instead of simply living. I’m an Excel nerd so over gathering data and comparing it to everything I can, thrice, each time with a different model, actually increases the amount of joy I get. ^^

[Ed_Waadt]

@Wolverine

Soooo, there is a fun thing about being over-excited and interpolating yearly data from only a 6 months serie… I failed to account for months without electricity bills at the end of last year. My bill for 2019 was roughly 550.- (46.-/mo Wallis, Romande Energie, roughly 2000 kWh).

Haha, okay. So this is reassuring. We’re at abut 2000 kWh/year.

(Btw, now that I know that you’re in Valais/Walllis I understand why you say everything in French/German)

@Wolverine

Got a rough year? (I’ve got the very unhealthy habit to drink coffee whenever I need to get in any kind of efficiency zone.)

Exams…

@investinghero

We recently purchased a pizza stone (30ish chf) for the oven, and after a few weeks experimenting with dough recipes and topping combinations have a fantastic takeaway pizza replacement.

The homemade version really rivals the 25chf equivalent, but with a price point of a couple (max) chf per pizza. We’ve reduced the takeaways considerably as a result, and now favor the home version (less greasy cheese… etc)

Plus, it’s quite fun to spend time learning and crafting a new skill with your S.O.

Kudos for this mustachian, life hacking and partnership strengthening approach !! Now I want some pizza… Where do you live ?

[Ed_Waadt]

Here I am again. Encouraged by the other topic, here’s my detail for 2020:

Interestingly enough, even though the pandemic has changed my habits and you can see that in many of the categories, all in all I stay stable at 50kCHF expenses + taxes which come at around 30k.

In 2021 I’ll be moving to a more expensive apartment (I know…) and will be commuting a lot more because I got a new job, so we’ll see next year how that worked out.

I feel slightly guilty that you’ve spend a lot of energy giving me feedback last year and I’m doing exactly the same, if not worse in 2021. Shame on me.

[MrCheese]

Looks like you didn‘t get rid of PF. why not switch to IB and save those 500 CHF?
Why is fitness such a high number? 1950 CHF sounds like gym, spa and regular massages?
7k for a PC and audio equipment sounds a bit crazy too. What did you get? some Alienware machine and Piega speakers?
Why do you keep the foreign phone number? 45 CHf for phone sounds a lot.

Hope you don’t mind my pointed questions.

[Ed_Waadt]

@MrCheese

Hope you don’t mind my pointed questions.

On the contrary! If I’m posting my expenses it is because I need for you to challenge my expending. It’s good that I feel accountable about this. Also, coming from someone with your kind of income it’s nice to see that you keep a frugal yet reasonable take on things.

Hope you don’t mind the lengthy answer!

@MrCheese

Looks like you didn‘t get rid of PF. why not switch to IB and save those 500 CHF?

I still have PF for investing, yes, but only the minimum requirements in a 3a fund so that I get all the accounts for free. For me it’s worth it because I have 3 CHF accounts, 2 EUR accounts and free unlimited cash withdrawals worldwise. While there is still the FX rate, withdrawing EUR from the EUR account from a Eurozone ATM is completely free. I value that. Also, I love PostFinance’s ebankin, I’m like that.

The rest I have at my employer’s brokerage account. I’m one of those fortunate ones who must trade at their employer’s because of compliance regulations, even though I do not work in finance but in IT. I’ve been simplifying my portfolio, hence the high turnover and high fees.

Also, I’m switching employers in 2021 and my new one is also a financial institution with even higher fees for employees (!), so I needed a simpler set-up. Also because I will have to pay for the transfer costs out of my own pocket and these are per position.

@MrCheese

Why is fitness such a high number? 1950 CHF sounds like gym, spa and regular massages?

I had been putting fitness off for many years. So I hired a personal coach. No spa, no massages. If only! I know, rich-person way of doing, but it really helped me. As you can see, I’ve needed him much less in 2020 than in 2019 as I do a lot at home by myself now. I consider this an investment in my health, physical but also mental!

@MrCheese

7k for a PC and audio equipment sounds a bit crazy too. What did you get? some Alienware machine and Piega speakers?

I do like audio, also producing it myself. Here are my excuses:

• First I got a fixed PC with a big processor and a lot of ram (CHF 1’200) so that I could be more productive when rendering audio and honestly, I’m happy with the results. It’s not a gaming PC since I don’t render video, only audio.
• Then my portable PC broke down and I ended buying an ultrabook to replace it, also at around 1’100 CHF. I don’t regret this as I use it very often and I’m more productive than from the iPad I had been using in mobility. Did I mention I also enjoy writing?
• As many have done during the soft confinement, I have made some home improvement work. In my case this included finally installing an audio system in the dining room which we have used extensively ourselves and when having people over. Amplifier and speakers set me back around 1’000 CHF.
• As I was enjoying my hobby more often at home, I also spent about 2’500 CHF in new recording equipment including pre-amplifiers, an audio interface and a couple of new microphones.
• The part I regret: I upgraded my home cinema speakers. Never Piega! Just some Dali, but still, this was completely unnecessary as the only improvement that is noticeable is when listening to stereo music, and that doesn’t require a new centra channel speaker.

I know…

@MrCheese

Why do you keep the foreign phone number? 45 CHf for phone sounds a lot.

I need it for online banking, stupid banks. It only costs me 2 EUR/month so that’s okay. The real expense comes from my Sunrise 42.-/month plan. It’s unlimited everything including calls to/from Europe/US/Canada and unlimited roaming. I consider this a bit of a luxury, but any year other than 2020 I would travel a lot and I also call my family on the phone because they are not tech-savvy. For me this is a confort choice cheaper than eating out.

In 2021 I expect transportations costs to go up, rent costs to go up and also educations costs. I will also need new furniture. But electronics, fitness should decrease dramatically. I have also made the choice to clean my apartment myself, so no more help. And online services should cost have as I will be billed correctly.

[MrCheese]

Electronics clarifications sound fair.

@Ed_Waadt

So I hired a personal coach.

Hehe, indeed not the most frugal way but probably worthwhile in relation to the health issues/spending.

@Ed_Waadt

The real expense comes from my Sunrise 42.-/month plan.

Fun fact, I haven’t paid for a mobile phone plan since 2006 because all my employers ended up paying it. Might be worthwhile to check with the new employer if they cover phone costs.

[Ed_Waadt]

Hi there and happy new year!

I’m done spreadsheeting, so here I share some figures and some trends.

Let’s start by commenting this post from 2019:

@Ed_Waadt

I live in Lausanne and pay too much rent.

I still live in Lausanne and I’ve moved recently so I’m paying even more rent. And then this happened:

@Ed_Waadt

I have moved recently to a rented apartment and noise from neighbors is something I hadn’t heard while visiting but that is rendering my life quite miserable in here. I even wonder if it can be considered a defect that was not visible during the visit therefore entitling me to a rent reduction!

So I expect to pay (slightly) more in 2022 if I find a nice place a bit further from the city center. And I really feel the need for a room just to work from home. Which may entail having a longer commute and thinking about a car. This is really not mustachian!

So without further ado, the finalized version of the preview that I shared in the common NW post:

Or 5k/month + taxes. Like I said previously, I honestly don’t feel that I live a luxurious life. I live alone and feel it really hard to bring this down. I believe however that I can still easily make 15-30k more a year, which, after (a lot of taxes) may help with my savings rate.

Speaking of, here’s my NW progression since I started tracking:

You can see that I am a victim of lifestyle inflation because my savings/NW follow a linear progression rather than exponential. Also, I’m being too slow to get rid of employer stocks.

Lastly, my savings rate is sh** and inconsistent, even if you exclude December where it’s normal to save next to nothing because of health insurance and other yearly expenses. You can also see some annual bonus coming in when I’m able to be at >60%:

Still, other than feeling that I spend a lot without going out a lot, buying things or travelling all the time, I am satisfied with how things are turning out. Quality of life is my priority now, reducing all stress factors to the max.

Once again: happy new year folks!

(Edit: typos and duplicates)

[Yanikuza]

@Ed_Waadt

So I expect to pay (slightly) more in 2022 if I find a nice place a bit further from the city center. And I really feel the need for a room just to work from home. Which may entail having a longer commute and thinking about a car. This is really not mustachian!

You should try to move to Morges or Gland, there are few news appartments next to the train station that are in development. They shouldn’t be more expensive than your actual rent. However, it will depend on what king of appartment you are looking at

@Ed_Waadt

Like I said previously, I honestly don’t feel that I live a luxurious life.

Well you have a nice salary and you are paying high taxes, also, Lausanne isn’t well know to be cheap on taxes. If you were married with one kids, you will probably spent less in taxes

[dbu]

Nothing extreme IMO.
Excluding furniture expenses (understandable with the moving), public transport and maybe some shopping/health differences; you would probably arrive at the level of ~4k per “normal” month (similar to mine in ZH, with rent of +100/m).

[Ed_Waadt]

@Yanikuza

You should try to move to Morges or Gland, there are few news appartments next to the train station that are in development. They shouldn’t be more expensive than your actual rent.

This is something I need to explore indeed because my current rent is higher than the average shown for 2021, you’ll see in 2022! However my social life is all in Lausanne and I’m already difficult to convince to go out. I am afraid that if I live in Morges or even worse, Gland, I will isolate myself.

@Yanikuza

Well you have a nice salary and you are paying high taxes, also, Lausanne isn’t well know to be cheap on taxes. If you were married with one kids, you will probably spent less in taxes

It is true that taxes are heavy and that my NW and savings rate would benefit way more from my getting married and having a kid (or moving to Züri for that matter) than from a little extra effort here and there budget-wise.

@dbu

Nothing extreme IMO.
Excluding furniture expenses (understandable with the moving), public transport and maybe some shopping/health differences; you would probably arrive at the level of ~4k per “normal” month (similar to mine in ZH, with rent of +100/m).

Haha, thanks for this, I’ll sleep better tonight! However my rent is higher than that as mentioned above and also taxes. And yeah, furniture expenses are due to my moving which I expect to do max once more in 2022 and that’ll be it for a while! Health… well, I have a low deductible because of some ongoing treatment so it is what it is.

[Doffy]

Really Interesting thanks for sharing ! Your rent is quite expensive. In Lausanne you can “easily” get a nice apartment, well located for 1400-1600 (even less if you are lucky). I notice you also pay a lot more than me for the house insurance, where are you insured (well, it also depend on the insurance sum).

It’s strange because we spent around the same amount in some things and nothing really stood out to me except your rent and insurance. Despite that I spend in average with taxes 3650.- a month.

@Ed_Waadt

I believe however that I can still easily make 15-30k more a year, which, after (a lot of taxes) may help with my savings rate.

What do you do to make easily 15-30K a year ?

[Ed_Waadt]

Thanks for yor comment. If feels way better that a “like” on Facebook

@Doffy

In Lausanne you can “easily” get a nice apartment, well located for 1400-1600 (even less if you are lucky).

Well, please define easily (how-to guide for dummies?) and well-located. I take the train regularly so being able to get to the train station is a condition for me. Max 20 minutes, otherwise my life would be unlivable. Also, I work alot from home, a lot meaning many hours and many days. Which is why I use a separate room that doubles as guest room just for work. It really helps me to close the door and move onto my “private life”. It is really something. Before I used to use that room and computer also to do fun stuff like browsing this forum or doing my accounting. Not anymore. I do that in the living room because being at that desk feels like work.

So in short: if you know how I can get a 3.5-room apartment less than 20 minutes away from the train station for 1600.-, please I think the whole forum is all ears!

@Doffy

I notice you also pay a lot more than me for the house insurance, where are you insured (well, it also depend on the insurance sum).

I’m insured against theft (160k), water damage, and 5M civil responsibility. The quoted figure also includes Asloca and mandatory ECA (fire insurance).

@Doffy

What do you do to make easily 15-30K a year ?

Simple! Get a promotion

[Ed_Waadt]

Hi forum!

I am doing a bit of a technology and social media detox, which is why I do not have many comments. I have kept tracking my spending though so here are the raw numbers for the year:

Once again, lifestyle inflation!

@Doffy

What do you do to make easily 15-30K a year ?

@Ed_Waadt

Simple! Get a promotion

Indeed, that happened! 10k more. I expect a higher bump this year, I will know in March.

Apart from that I am not super proud of my numbers but as for many 2022 has been a difficult year. I have spent much on experiences: “alcohol” includes going out to bars of course, “entertainment” includes theaters and concerts, and spent some money to feel better at home with furniture and improvements. I am also not ready to move to pay less rent, I like where I am in Lausanne right now.

What I do not understand is how I am paying so much more for electricity, I must look into this. Also the régie/Verwaltung is late with giving me back what I have paid extra in common costs, which is showing.

I have also been more generous with friends and family, which explains the higher “gifts” expenses.

Lastly, unfortunately last year I inherited some money which of course I invested. But a small fraction was used to buy a second-hand car. That expense is not showing, but maintenance, taxes, insurance, parking, gas and winter tires are showing under a brand new category “car expenses” with a whooping total of 3’400 CHF for only 5 months I have owned the car. Clearly not a financially wise decision, but again, mental health: owning a car has allowed me to see friends and meet people in difficult-to-get areas or at times when public transportation does no longer work. Also, I can be more spontaneous as I no longer have Mobility cars close to my place. I still use public transportation when it makes sense and to go to work, though.

Tomorrow I will prepare the NW graph which isn’t glorious either. About 50% of what I have been able to save in 2022 has been “lost” due to market performance.

You guys take care of yourselves and your loved ones!

[Ed_Waadt]

As promised yesterday, this is my NW evolution since January 2016. Still fail to see any exponential growth:

At least the slope of the savings graph seems steeper despite my lavish year 2022.

The bump in January 2022 is explained by the inheritance (minus car) which I have accounted for at the beginning of the year.

As for the savings rate, I decided I would smooth the curve which shows that I’m at a consistent 27-35% percent.

The at 37% in June-July comes from the smoothing because I hit a strike at the beginning of the year starting with a bonus paid in February. These are the actual month-by-month savings rates for 2022:

• Jan 2022: 9%
• Feb 2022: 56%
• Mar 2022: 44%
• Apr 2022: 34%
• May 2022: 46%
• Jun 2022: 42%
• Jul 2022: 39%
• Aug 2022: 22%
• Sep 2022: 13%
• Oct 2022: 34%
• Nov 2022: 14%
• Dec 2022: 5%

There you go. Now off the computer!

Happy New Year!