Dr Quasar journey to FIRE

Thank to all of you for all the car wisdom in your answers. I have to apologize, following your answers I found out I did a mistake 1’304.60 is repairs and 937.65 is tires. Still it is too expensive indeed.
What I take back from your answers is:

  • next time we need tires, I can go to nearby France. It will be much cheaper for sure.
  • as we plan to no longer own a car in the future, the full casco is not necessary anymore. BTW it is a full casco with new value. If the car is destroyed, I get the price of a new car. BTW (again) my previous car was destroyed in an accident and I was lucky to have such an insurance. I know it is not statistically relevant…

Long story short we bought it about 3 years ago at a used cars dealer. It was about 10months old at that time. Without knowing it I did a very mustachian purchase at that time. It is a Skoda Yeti 4wd. At that time we were living in the countryside far away from town, the kids were little, the public transportation not very convenient. But now we live downtown, near bus, Metro, shops all what we need. The car no more matches with our needs.

@ma0 we are a family of four.
@all regarding health insurance, when the kids grow up, the insurance fees grow too. If I remember well, when they get 6, the next year you get some increase.

Today’s work story:
Young coworker G. came into our office to talk with young coworker J.
G: did you see? New Iphones released soon!
J: I can’t buy one this year, I’ll next year when I renew my Swisscom contract.
G: I can this year. I’m gonna get a nice new Iphone tomorrow! That’s 1’400* francs but what a nice phone!
Me(thinking): what a piece of shit of a phone you’re gonna get for such a lot of money!
I asked him if it was not better to save the money but he wiped out my suggestion: bank accounts pay such low interest nowadays**, I better buy Iphones!

  • not sure of the exact sum he mentioned.
    ** and we work in finance, he should know what compounding means.
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The new iPhone is indeed expensive (1199 CHF / 1299 CHF for the cheapest options). I guess anyone who has to work more than 2-3 days to save that amount of money, should not be buying one. Then again, it’s totally fine if you’re overall frugal and then reach deep into the pocket for a few purchases you care about. Especially if it’s gonna serve you 3-4 years.

I’m really amazed that Apple manages to sell so many iPhones at this price. I earn a good salary in rich Switzerland, and I can barely afford a phone like this. In Poland this phone will sell for 5000 PLN, that’s more than average gross monthly salary!

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To be fair, some people spend a significant time of their live on the phone so it might be good to not fully cheap out on that. (I would definitely not recommend spending 1k+ for an IPhone but I get why people do it)

What is the deal with companies rising their price ranges lately?
Nvidia is creating a new price range above the old one because they produced way too much last gen chips (lol mining). Apple broke into the 1-2k mark because they like money and Intel is apparently going to push up the prices too. It almost feels like hyperinflation but only in tech XD.

2016
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2017
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2018

So observe the price of iPhone 7: from 649 to 549 to 449. That’s what you call inflation?

If anything, I guess the appetite for more high end and expensive electronics keeps growing. Rich people like to buy things that not everybody can afford, but oh snap, the iPhone X sold for 1000 bucks and it’s the best selling phone in the World! So I guess we can’t blame Apple.

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Source?

I said it feels like inflation but the IPhone really is the weakest of my examples.
Nvidia:

2013 |  GTX 780 TI |  699$
2015 |  GTX 980 TI |  649$
2017 | GTX 1080 TI |  699$
2018 | RTX 2080 TI | 1199$

But this is just an observation.

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And you make the same mistake again. You compare better and better graphics cards and say it’s inflation.

The $1199 is the “founders edition” price, the MSRP is $999. And the regular 2080 (not Ti) costs $699. So which one is better, 1080 Ti or 2080? Because they cost the same.

Fair enough, I guess that is one of the perks of having a small product-line.

I say it is like inflation, LIKE. It is of course not actual inflation.

And I am comparing the same tier of cards against each other. Kind of like the big-mac index compairs a big-mac (regardless of if it is made from actual meat or pink slime).

That is exactly the point, we do not know but unless it is an unusual performance increase it is a unusual price increase. Also they very rarely sold at MSRP in the last couple of years.
There is a very big difference with having the same MSRP and costing the same.

And don’t even get me started on this whole “founders” f*ckery.

Also @DrQuasar sorry for hijacking your thread with our shitposting.

Hi again guys ! No problem with the Iphone discussion. I like to listen to other people. It’s a good way to learn things about unknown topics (like Iphones for me) or human psychology.

My thinking about FIRE is not in net wealth but in passive income. I calculated that an after tax income of 60K francs would be enough. At the time being I have some “passive income” investments which I plan to hold forever and some “growth” investments which I plan to balance some day into “passive income”. My passive income is 7’992.-/13.32% for now.

I read somewhere that in Victorian England, rich people were thinking in “income” rather than “wealth”. Like A, who has a 2’000£ income is going to marry B who has 5’000£, that’s not a good match :smiley:
I like this way of thinking.

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Hi @DrQuasar, as I promised, I updated my budget:

  • Some comments on your spending:

Do you have the highest deductible? Have you considered moving to a cheaper insurer? I pay 5741.4 for me, my wife and my one-year-old son.

This is sad. You could consider moving to a cheaper commune/canton. I’m lucky enough to live in Zug where I pay 200 in taxes and I receive 300 back in family allowance.

Have you considered buying in Lidl and/or making some big shopping few times a year in Germany? This could translate into 20-30% lower bill.

This one is actually a pretty good bargain.

This is pretty high IMHO, but I don’t have any advice on how to lower it. I pay ~500 CHF.

What kind of insurance is that?

What’s in this category? Maybe you can promote more cost-less hobbies and sports in your family? :slight_smile:

Make an agreement with your family that you cook for each other as a present or organize a picnic or something like that.

I have one advice: second-hand and shop in cheaper countries from time to time (for example on vacations).

I myself try to limit this cost by using less electronics - for example, I don’t have a TV. I keep one computer + 2 smartphones + 1 kindle and we’re trying to use it as long as it is possible (few years).

For example?

This is a phone? That’s pretty high IMHO. I usually use 5-10 CHF per month (+ my wife even less than that). We’re using cheap prepaid - Lyca and CoopMobile.

For example?

I buy second-hand on tutti.ch and ricardo.ch.

My friend have a dog and they buy dog food only in Germany. It’s a lot cheaper.

For example?

This is pretty cheap. Well done. :slight_smile:

I don’t have a Garden and Dog, so in my case this lowers my bills few houndred bucks a year, but I still see lots of space for optimisations in your budget.

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If you find this sad, then what should I say with 35’000 tax and probably around 25’000 for ahv. If I moved to Zug, the tax would be 25’000 and I would have an extra 2 hours commute every day, so no thanks :smiley:

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In 30 years this young guy who doesn’t save cos there’s no interest at the moment will sound like the older co-worker in your story further up.
“at work I have one 55 years old coworker, very nice guy but he had several health issues recently. We told him he could retire at 58 but he complained he didn’t have enough money to do so. He explained he has only his 2nd pillar and would have to wait some years before getting AHV. Someone told him to save some money but he replied he can’t, he spend every penny every month.”
I have some colleagues like this and it really never ceases to amaze me, cos I’m at a company who pays really really well, and they have been there 30 years.
The only “poor” guys of my colleagues that I can have some sympathy for, are the divorced. I’ve seen enough court cases where they are truly fleeced, although of cos I’m mostly only hearing the guy’s side of the story.

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25’000 for AHV? :flushed:
Using the 5% u earn almost half a million p.a. :+1::stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

OK, I guess it’s more like 22’000 (11’000 + 11’000). 12.5%, 6.25% employee, 6.25% employer. IMO the employer/employee split is bullshit. Doesn’t matter who pays it.

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Ah ok. U are right, I forgot the employer contribution. I agree, that is simply somewhat “hidden” and should be added to “your” contribution.

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@ 1000000CH Thank you for taking time to give me some feedback on the various costs. For now I’m going to update the car insurance, since it’s of no use to have such a large cover if we plan to stop owning a car in the future.

Thanks everybody too for your opinion.

Some comments (with two small kids I don’t have enough time in the evening :sweat:)

Health: I guess it can’t get much lower. Me and my wife have a private cover (with a 5’000 deductible) and the kids have a dental cover in case they will need orthodontics.

Taxes: I can pay some money in my 2nd pillar since I have a big gap (worked abroad several years) and put some money in tax free investments. The wealth tax is the one most hurting, it eats o.xx% of the full amount every year!

Groceries: I feel here lie some space for cost reduction. Most of the shopping is done by my wife. Although price conscious, she could go more to Aldi. My plan is to show her how cheaper are most things we usually buy. Last time I showed her that milk costs about 0.30 less at Aldi (whatever category: bio, normal, UHT). She calculated that it would be 1.50 francs per week / 78 francs per year and said it doesn’t worth going to Aldi for 78 francs. I’ll continue with bananas (popular item here), Emmental and Parmesan cheese. Maybe if I can find 500 francs she will agree ! Anybody has some stories about convincing his/her spouse?

NATEL: 1’010.75
This is the sum for two phones. Mine and my wife. She sometimes bought bus tickets with her phone so it’s not really all phone costs. We have Sunrise for 70 francs fixed costs, the rest is various costs mostly beacause my wife used to buy bus tickets with her phone.

Insurance details:
|1’692.50|car insurance|
|370.80|life insurance|
|341.35|home insurance|
|314.00|juridic insurance|
|47.90|fire insurance|
We can trim down the car insurance and maybe drop the life insurance altogether now that we have some stash. If I put extra money in the 2nd pillar this can replace life insurance since my wife and kids can get it back (plus some interest).

Clothing: unfortunately I work in finance and need to wear a suit, tie, etc. every weekday. I fear I use more money for clothing than my wife or the kids (who get a lot from bigger friends).

Other non-food includes beer & wine, toys, items for drawing/painting, making things with the kids (soap, candles, woodwork, etc.), perfume, a few books.

Fun 1’010.41 is mostly eating out, including while on holidays or visiting zoo/museums with the kids.

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15000 for health is only insurance or also doctors and stuff?
If just insurance, I didn’t know it was possible to pay that much just for it. Did you check comparis.ch?

Natel: 70chf is 35chf/person? You can lower it to 29chf/person.

Regarding Groceries, I think you should sit down with your wife and start talking about your future. It looks like she doesn’t really agree with your goals. I don’t remember if you are the only earner in your family, but it seems so.

Hi there, not so much progress although the recent drop in stocks price will allow me to buy dividend stocks at cheaper prices. It’s getting exciting. Time to quote Warren Buffett “when everybody is greedy be fearful, when everybody is fearful by greedy”.

My way of balancing things is I keep 25% of my investment money in cash (I don’t reinvest dividends, keep the spared money on the saving account, etc). When the stocks value gets down I buy some more to keep them at 75% of the total.

On another front, the wife agreed to go to Aldi (no Lidl here) at least half of the time. One of her friend told her it’s about 30% cheaper than Migroop (or Cogros as you wish). I don’t know why but she believes her friends more than her own husband !:face_with_raised_eyebrow:

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Hi there, time for the October wrap up !

Saving rate is very low and bad this month: car maintenance, veterinarian and a week-end trip to Alsace took a heavy toll. On top of this usual spending was a bit higher than usual. No more than 10% savings.

Groceries should come lower from next month at The Wife went several times to Aldi and was quite impressed by the difference on several products. She definitely is going to shop much less at Migroop.

Shocking news on insurances! I decided to lower them and asked several changes. Since we now live downtown I don’t drive that much and told them The Wife is the main driver from now on. They told me since she’s not Swiss it will cost more about + 100.- (yearly)! I wanted to lower the insured amount for the household insurance and the guy told me not to under insured as it would cost me a lot in case I had a claim. Basically I was going to save 50.- (yearly) but, for him, with a heavy risk. I still think I’m going to lower it.

The next day I read in a consumer magazine (Bon à Savoir) that passenger insurance (something inside your car insurance) is basically useless since if you have an accident either you are responsible and your liability insurance kicks in or the other driver is responsible and his/her insurance kicks in. According to the magazine, insurance companies get about 12 X what they spend on this passengers insurance thing. The only case in which it can be useful is if you insure for more than regular requirements. For example with a daily amount for every injured person.

Great news! I discovered that my employer has some contracts with Sunrise and I could get a heavy discount. Instead of 75.- month for two phones, I’ll pay 52.- from now on.

Slightly good news on tax front since Kanton Vaud is going to raise the health insurance deductible from net year and reduce the tax rate. It is still much higher than tax rates in the German Swiss part but still encouraging.

Finally some shocking news on investments. My best dividend performer is getting bought out. The new company is paying less dividend so although I did some new investments, my global dividend income is not getting any higher this month.

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my iPhone 6plus is now over 4 years old, still runnng. should it crash, I would get the 2nd most recent top-line model…

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I was reading this older post. Do you have any update on your situation? And the FIRE plans are progressing