Do you have marginal tax rate below 15% or something like that? Or is it because you deducted portfolio management cost?
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Where can i check my marginal tax rate?
i just deduct the standard/automatic value(116.-) for management cost.
The relevant rate is the average/effective tax rate, not the marginal one. Divide your total income taxes (incl. federal taxes but without wealth taxes) by your taxable income (not gross income). The details are a bit more complicated but that should get you a rough approximation.
Deduction of interest payments (e.g. mortgage or margin loan) affect the refund as well.
However, your tax rate being slightly below 15% should only result in a reduction of the refund, not a complete rejection.
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Yes that’s right, they didn’t reject it, they just adjusted it and refunded 2.55.- instead of 150.-.
Aimed for CHF 165, got CHF 93.
It‘s something 
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I received my tax return today in Geneva canton.
I had submitted the detail purchase of VT shares and the software GeTax calculated a withholding tax of 116.-
However I had a Remarques sur titres:
Titre ‘4354003 - Vanguard Total World Stock ETF’ :
Pas d’imputation d’impôts étrangers à la source sur les ETF.
I also have a foreign mortgage like the other.
I may switch to VERX+VTI+VWO as an alternative.
The “remarque” doesn’t make much sense. Maybe call them? I’m not sure why they’d not follow what’s in ictax (and you have a proof of withholding from IB).
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Thank you.
I will try my luck and call them.
It is not that important with this amount but who knows what it will be in 10 years.
It’s possible there’s a different reason (e.g. if you have a mortgage), but ETF shouldn’t matter, the ordinance doesn’t treat it differently than other foreign income subject to withholding.
I just phone them and I had one of the Geneva specialist of the shares department.
In his point of view, you cannot claim back withholding tax of ETF because the taxation is transparent. It is Vanguard that claim it back but not the end investor.
I can only reclaim it if I hold directly the company (Apple, Microsoft …) even if GeTax calculated the withholding tax automatically.
I told him I know there are investors that can claim it back in Zurich or Vaud but he was not really interested. there must be no communication between departments.
Is there another investor in Geneva that manage to get his US withholding tax this year ?
I can do a reclamation before August 11th to go deeper but it will be only to prove the point as it is for 116.-
Any update from @_MP with his latest real estate foreign investment ? Can you still recover the withholding tax of VT ?
Yes, it seems like the Geneva ‘specialist’ thinks it’s L1 WHT, in which case he would be right. However, it’s L2 WHT, which falls under the double taxation agreement. And L1 WHT wouldn’t show up in ICTax or broker statements.
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Don’t you just love this bureaucratic nightmare? The tax laws are so complicated that the tax office can’t even properly train their own employees to understand them and apply them properly. Neither you’re at fault, nor the poor tax office employee. With this level of complexity we’re bound to make mistakes time and time again. Just think how unmanageable this would be if we didn’t have IT systems and relied on pen and paper.
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Doesn’t seem worth it, but might be good to at least get in writing the justification for which part of the regulation/legislation/treaty allows treating funds differently wrt withholding tax.
They’re definitely confused between L1 and L2 withholding.
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Well I would raise the claim also because next year it might be more than just 116 CHF; at the end is just writing a letter and the case will be reassessed hopefully with other experts and/or with more attention
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That you for your feedbacks.
I will send them a letter.
I would like to add official sources mentioning it.
I have found S-02.142 document on the subject but only for qualified intermediary (IB).
It is available in German for the English website but you have also French.
However there is no mention of L1 nor L2.
Have you got a better source for private investor Swiss resident ?
I am reading the main thread but the main source is boggle heads for Canadian investor.
@s-g mentioned another article that should be enough for the us :
https://www.estv.admin.ch/estv/fr/accueil/droit-fiscal-international/international-par-pays/sif/impots-source-selon-cdi/auslaendische-quellensteuern-pro-land.html#-591145893
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You could ask which part of the tax treaty excludes dividends distributed by funds.
Showing the dividend distribution and withholding (e.g. dividend report + 1042-S) should be enough to show that you had US sourced dividends.
Fedlex is the relevant ordinance.
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I think the 1042-S could be particularly helpful in this case, it clearly states that you are the recipient of the withholding tax (and not the etf provider).
I would also write to the federal tax administration to have their written confirmation that you can claim back the 15% wht for VT and support your claim, there’s a contact form on their website.
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I did for 2021. No issue for US witholding tax (shares + ETF), as well as the Swiss additional tax (I’ve a Swiss broker)
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Hey there, I recently had the opposite experience than @FunnyDjo. My DA-1 was initially refused (in VD), so I called and they promised to look into it.
It turns out that the “stocks taxation specialist” who processed my demand refused it by mistake. It took them 3-4 days to clarify and they called me back to tell me it is being fixed. Maybe it helped that the person who checked wasn’t the same one that made the mistake (initially they wanted to address me to “my guy” but he wasn’t available).
Anyways, I would encourage you to push back. Not only you will hopefully get your CHF 116.- back but it’s important that our tax people do things right, they are dealing with our money after all! And who knows, it may help others down the line
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A small update on WTH refund, I did exactly the same type of declaration for my VT shares and their dividends for 2022.
nb: I declare them individually in the software for each purchase to calculate the withholding tax amount automatically.
For 2022, it was 325.- and was approved and applied.
For 2021, it was 150.- and was denied. I wire then and send the explanation of the federal tax office but never had an answer.
I had no explanation of what change outside of the tax officer but it’s reassuring for the future.