Crowdhouse experiences

Real Estate
63

Well, if you borrow 100% your yield is infinite

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64

It’s easier to talk of unleveraged yields and people can add leverage/risk as desired.

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65

Those are quite impressive numbers. Is that your net profit? Or is that before Foxstone fees? Did you have any defaults or late payments so far?

66

This is net profit after all fees.
Minus your own taxes at your marginal tax rate.

No “late payments”, everything works like a Swiss watch.

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67

Thanks for sharing your experience. Reads quite good. “Decent” indeed :slight_smile: I have been considering complementing my “Direct-RE-Funds” with something like Foxstone.
The yields you mention, this is basically
“CHF received i.e. paid out to you p.a.” / “invested CHF in 2024” = your calculated yield p.a. right?
Sorry, I know @gaijin asked a similar question which you answered, I just want to lead on from this question - Considering/assuming CH property value has increased say 2% p.a. since 2024, would you additionally have this return, at least “theoretically” “on paper”. And this return would be multiplied by about 2 (since “leverage” by mortgage “*”).

So, in this market since 2024 total return (payout + appreciation) may have been about 10-11% p.a.?
Just trying to compare with my Direct RE Funds (which of course have that strong Agio element to consider).

“*” On average, 40% of each property is financed by the co-owners’ equity and 60% by a mortgage. (from Foxstone website)

Re Taxes, since you’re in the Grundbuch of the property, you basically get taxed in the canton where the property is, for this property value and property income? You send in a copy of your tax declaration from your home canton, right? Not too bad, but still a bit of admin, another login, another tax bill etc.
How is the tax value of the property? In general the tax value of a owner-occupied-house is quite a bit lower than its market value (say 60-70% of market value) - are you taxed on this market value or that initial invesment amount made?

Thanks for any follow-up answers!

68

And a re-partition calculation. Plus some cantons can disagree. ZH used to accept a lump sum discount for wealth management fees, BL challenges this and gets it disallowed for both


69

Yield is “you put in 10k / at 6% you get 600 CHF per year”, minus withholding tax 35%, fully reclaimable in the next tax declaration (as Verrechnungssteuer). Multiply your numbers as you see fit.

Neither Foxstone nor Crowdhouse offers an appreciation indexation as the rental yields also don’t do this. Foxstone offers linear appreciation on the secondary market over time, Crowdhouse sets a one-round auction for the interested parties to manage an exit.

As for crowd-lending, there is no appreciation element, of course.

It’s the cash payout as advertised. Real estate appreciation is imaginary until cashed out, so this is only in your head. For my sanity, I’m discounting this to 1-2% pa. :slight_smile:

then after properties in different cantons you need to comply with

  • sending all your tax declarations into all of them (different methods, but still mostly email or web upload), special (nut)case Geneva, all with their own deadlines
  • answering all their questions about repartitioning et al.
  • keeping 2 kg’s of paper each year
  • I’m also having a full “taxes” tab now to keep track of what has been paid to which canton and Gemeinde on which day for which invoice (provisorium, suggestion, definitive invoice, closing invoice)
 :unamused_face:

Property tax values are set by the canton. In some cases they will send you a letter, for Canton AG it’s OK to leave this at zero


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70

Thanks very much for all this clear info, based on your actual experience!