Crowdhouse experiences

One question: are you registered as one of the owners the property? Is the mortgage (partially)in your name? Does you name get sent to the ZEK?

Yes I am registered as one of the owners land register. And mortgage too

I don’t know ZEK

I recently requested an updated ZEK and IKO and nothing was mentioned there about my investment with Crowdhouse.

With Crowdhouse the minimum is 100k for the same property isn’t?

Depending on the property the minimum investment can be between 50k to 200k

Thanks for this! It’s a pity because I don’t want my name associated with further credit :confused:

Can you precise your thinking with some facts ?

Hi, nybody has feedback on foxstone, example of investment, I looked at it, one of latest investment is in Moudon, and I have some reserve.
Moudon is a town where you can find many appartments, it makes it easy to switch especially if a new appartment is coming on the market, compared to old ones, people prefer new bathroom, less expensive heating system, etc…
I’ve seen that a lot in Fribourg, now all the old building are empty.

Can anybody give an example of investment?
thanks
.

For Moudon so if it’s easy to switch maybe is not a good investment…building empty = low rate

Coming back here with my first Crowdhouse investment.

The 5 years have run its course, so the owners would have to decide about keeping the house refinanced or sell it.

The object itself did well, pulling a capital-relative 6.2% yield for 5 years, plus another 4.5% appreciation yearly, so backtested it’s about 10% yield p.a. Not even close to the 2018-2023 stock market yield, but not bad for RE.

The default with Crowdhouse is selling the investment unless a 66% ownership majority objects, in which case it gets refinanced.

And this is where democracy sucks. There were about 50% of the owners present on the meeting (Eigentümerversammlung), some voted in mail, but also some 28% was not interested in their money’s course so they abstained in every point, and even though the overwhelming majority wanted to refinance the object, it’s now getting sold - also meaning we need to pay appreciation tax (Grundstückgewinnsteuer), etc.

would it be possible for you share a complete story, getting in, owning, getting out after the processed is done? Super looking forward to it.

Ask me again next summer :slight_smile: the mortgage only expires in November, the property goes onto the market at fair market pricing - not exactly in the best of times to be honest, it might get a lower purchase price than fair. Then I’ll have to wait for the tax declaration to see how much I owe Kt AG.

But yes, I’ll report back.

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The return of e.g. VWRL in CHF was 5.9% p.a. over the last 5 years, so I’m surprised about your statement.

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CH returns are not annual compounded, but just flat per year (so let’s say the yield is every year 5% against capital, leveraged, minus income taxes, plus in the end you get the RE appreciation and the rest of the account reserves paid out, minus property appreciation tax minus incomes taxes, minus any selling fees) so in total it’s probably getting to a lower total return than the compounded total return of VOO (in my case).

I’ll get a detailed analysis together soon.

Crowdhouse in the news: Charging tenants up to 18,000 CHF for overspend on shared costs.

Unclear from the article whether this is incompetence or intentionally abusive behaviour

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Neither. They are just not very good with administration. :thinking:
As an agency, their hands are also tied (they have to pay the bills to cover the services).

On a similar subject, has anyone heard/have experience with SIPA crowd immo? It seems to work on a different principle to Crowdhouse, in that investers are shareholders, not direct property owners. Not clear to me who receives capital gains, if the property is sold at the end of the investment period.

Coming back here after 7 years with Crowdhouse and multiple objects and already one (botched) exit.

The Good news:

  • the properties are solid, they seem to be generating the advertised revenue. Yes, nothing is invested into maintenance apart from necessary items (repair) and the building of the security buffer (“sicherheitsfonds”) but that’s the concept anyhow. Buying new buildings should not give you too many headaches.
  • the payments are always on schedule like a Swiss watch
  • the platform is enough informative to give you tax documents, etc. as and when needed

The meh things:

  • there is zero proactivity in the company. They are going with the flow as long as you are OK to collect the payments and not ask questions
  • there is 1 email address for all 150+ properties to ask questions, no personalized support, no direct link to your property manager
  • said email answers your questions with a delay of 6-14 days, so it’s impossible to get a conversation closing in a reasonable time.
  • they are (purposefully?) not facilitating communication among the owners so we had to do this based on a WhatsApp community (if any of you are a member, chat me for the links) to discuss matters that impacts our properties.

The bad things:

  • We sold an object, which didn’t get paid out for 3 months after the sale datum, and the house’s conto is still not zeroed out 8 months after, despite the house getting demolished/fully renovated, so it’s mostly empty with no consumption of anything. They seem to be waiting for the yearly invoices from utilities.
  • We wanted to sell an object where they were totally reactive in the sale process. Nothing on homegate or any other property portal at all, ad not to be found via Google. They apparently had 3 viewings with 1 offer in 6 months, which was lower than their target price. They never asked the ownership if we want to lower the price. They never told us anything about this process apart from nothing happening as the deadline was coming closer. I emailed their CEO Robert Plantak multiple times, to no avail.
  • We ended up refinancing the house last November, that process is still not completed as of now (May 2024, 7 months later). This costs about 1000 CHF per month to run the SARON on the original mortgage instead of the refinancing mortgage what is already agreed but is pending 7 months in the making…
  • one of our houses has a chronic problem with the heating, which they seem to be unable to fix, but every year there are multiples of 10’000 CHF accounted against “repairs”. The reports from these repairs are one-liners (“now it’s OK”) with no paperwork-trail in transparency (who did what, how much did it cost, etc).
  • the sluggishness of co-ownership also doesn’t help as most owners don’t give a flying :duck: about their investments and its performance, just vote YES to accept the yearly closing report every year blindly.

All in all, I would not put any more money into this company. They seem to pick the investments well but are VERY short of staff in managing the tail-end with investor relations and customer service. They don’t care about the owners as long as their bills are paid and the object is financed - they go to the next.

The problem is that property management is a low-profitability thing with a lot of manual labor. As long as this is their business model (sell objects with high honorars then manage into infinity), I don’t quite see how this is getting stabilized as the current staffing model certainly doesn’t work.

This business is built on trust and if I can’t trust that my money will be managed well, it’s hard to advocate for the plattform, despite the good deals popping up every now and then.

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Thanks for sharing

I think what worries me most is the end game with Crowdfunding. It’s often stated that you can sell your shares but it’s not always so straightforward because it’s not like selling a stock on SIX.

When you said that you waited to sell the unit, were you referring to your share? Or you had the whole apartment and hence you could sell the whole property?

Don’t mix apples with oranges. This is real estate, it’s a long game, your ideal holding period is forever (20+ years). If you want to flip before 10 years you also need to pay additional taxes on the appreciation (depending on canton ofc).

I didn’t want to sell anything, but you own a percentage of the whole, so not any particular flat in a multi-family house.