Covid vaccines - First feedback from people already vaccinated and... what do you think about it?

[Fliss]

@Patron

there are no valid counter arguments

They are there, but you disregard them.

[nugget]

@Patron

but still, there are no valid counter arguments.

You are as convinced of Covid “not being a thread”, the “vaccine not being efficient”, “the government becoming a dictatorship” as Mark Sargent is convinced of the Earth being flat:

Inside a Flat Earth convention, where nearly everyone believes Earth isn't round

No argument ever brought before you is acknowledged as valid argument by you. This thread is full of very good arguments with good sources on why the vaccine is a good thing and why nations should make sure it is applied. They are just invisible to you.

[Fliss]

@Patron

And again you proved that the only thing you intend to do is discrediting and framing people with another opinion than yourself, by putting them into a shady corner of conspiracy theorists, flat earthers, etc. rather than pulling up any arguments. In your next post I’m going to be depicted as what? QAnon? Scientology? Cheap.

“If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a…”

[Gesk]

[nugget]

@Patron

discrediting and framing people

that is actually not my goal. But I see how you come to this

My goal is to debunk semi-truths and falsehoods that you seem to build your opinion on, such as

• covid being not a (great) risk
• the vaccine not being safe
• the government censors or influences pro-vs. contra-arguments, propaganda everywhere
• media being one-sided
• freedom of speech being endagered, “cancel culture”
• this forum being a exception
• dicatorship approaching
• suggesting covid measures have no/small impact on the pandemic
• there would not be a scientific consensus on this topic
• there would be a simpler way to end the pandemic than getting sufficiently many people vaccinated
• …

[San_Francisco]

@Patron

In many countries there is no correlation between measures and lower numbers, in some cases there are little to low measures but still low numbers, in some countries they got rid of the measures but numbers are still going down.

In Switzerland there clearly was. Most obvious is the relativel quick drop in infections after (re-)introduction of measures in october last year.

@Patron

How do you know that? And what means not forever?

How do I know that? Most restrictions have already been lifted. The Federal Office of Public Health provides very detailed lists of restrictions that have been put in place - and subsequently lifted.

It‘s been only a short while ago that everybody could get vaccinated.

@Barto

The video talks about Pfizer asking for collateral as guarantee of payment from Argentina and Brazil.

Generally I prefer my news about South America from other, more trustworthy sources - rather than from India, of all places.

If there was an hidden agenda for Pfizer to procure military bases for the U.S. government, we would have heard about it. Out of Argentina and Brazil, rather than just some obscure Indian outfit. We haven‘t. I know people in both countries personally. They haven‘t either. And I can’t imagine the Argentines not being sensitive about the topic, considering how close an ally the US are to the British - that they went to war against less than 30 years ago.

@Barto

A separate debate is whether Pfizer should be allowed to charge so much for the vaccine in the first place

Why not? Taxation is theft, government is evil - so free enterprises should be able to set their prices freely, shouldn‘t they?

[fedra]

Hello, I found The British Medical Journal to be a very good source of Covid scientific news and articles.

[fedra]

Reading that the main possible issue with mRNA vaccines is the carrier (lipid nanoparticles LNP), I tried to find out more and in the British Medical Journal I found this very interesting article (March 2021)

Leaked documents show that some early commercial batches of Pfizer-BioNTech’s covid-19 vaccine had lower than expected levels of intact mRNA, prompting wider questions about how to assess this novel vaccine.

What is worrying me is the lack of transparency by Moderna, Pfizer and the various regulators (USA, Canada, Europe and UK) about the compromised mRNA and the still unknown eventual long term effects of the LNPs.

[fedra]

About Novavax… As I wrote above I was very excited but reading yesterday these angry comments from volunteers around the world, commenting a thank you tweet by the company, I had to change my mind.

[Polo]

What is wrong with our modern societies these days? (3 first minutes of the video)
Querdenker auf Corona-Station | SPIEGEL TV - YouTube

[Gesk]

@Patron

get onto the streets and to vote

It will be interesting to see the results of the vote. Here in VD >80% of the adult population is already vaccinated (part of it kind of against their initial wishes obviously).

[Barto]

here is an interesting data set showing chances of being hospitalised if not vaccinated
Example: 30 year old male no medical conditions 2.7%
I believe data set is before Delta variant

See how age and illnesses change the risk of dying from covid-19

Ps calling people sheep is a bit rich when in a previous post Patron has asked for logical argument [Edit: From my viewpoint I would argue it is the people who looking up alternative facts online and ignoring mainstream views who are acting like sheep, I think we have been around that discussion several times and people aren’t going to change their position, calling people sheep or whatever isn’t going to bring us forward]

[trotro]

Yeah, polls show that most people agree with the covid-certificate. Not sure if that changed during the last week. There could be an increased mobilisation of people unhappy with the current measures.

On a very anecdotal note:
I went to a conservative place this weekend and half-expected people to be incredibly upset with the measures (as implied by the media coverage). Most people don’t seem to care, simple as that. I’m sure many of them don’t agree with the Bundesrat. But they have other worries (“Ehe für Alle” was a big issue), are already vaccinated, the restrictions don’t affect their life, they find easy ways to adjust their lifes or have some other reason why it isn’t a huge issue for them.
Was surprised by this lack of interest.

[Gesk]

Or maybe they thought about it, changed their minds and accepted the vaccine.

[jay]

@Patron

My main reason not to get vaccinated is to stand up against the totalitarian government and to protest against the discrimination of people. It is for me no longer a scientific question, it became a political question whether we want to live in a divided society where discrimination has its place, or not.

This doesn’t make sense to me at all. If you thought that vaccinating is sensible from a scientific point of view, but you don’t agree with the certificate requirement, why wouldn’t you still get the vaccine and just not use the certificate (or protest in some other form)?

[San_Francisco]

@Patron

Which is still quite low

Considering that this age group has (in Switzerland) a hospitalisation rate of only about 8% per year normally and we’re talking just one infectious disease here… it’s a lot.

[MUFC_OK]

@San_Francisco

rate of only about 8%

8% of 30 year olds get hospitalized yearly? Can‘t be. Maybe I don‘t get the context?

[Gesk]

I’m not sure it is the most efficient or safest way to make your point but I can understand. I hope you won’t get any serious complications when you’ll eventually get exposed to the disease.

[kagoda]

Seriously, I was hoping not to see this kind of opinions on this forum…
The government is not coercing you, it’s putting incentives on vaccination, which is the only way to reopen. It’s so easy to understand…

[kagoda]

Sorry, I was not clear. It is the only way to reopen without seriously risking your parents/grandparents life. The only reason why now the situation is manageable is for the vaccine, how can you not realise that?

I don’t understand really…I mean, it’s really not complicated to get…

EDIT 1: (Also, it does not cost jobs to people. They can get tested.)

EDIT 2: (Also, it is a very typical form of incentive in society for things that slightly damage the society, similar to alcool, smoke, etc…)