Childcare costs

This is something I don’t really like in Switzerland, as well as the fact that when you are married and when both spouses are working, you will actually pay more taxes…

On the other hand - kids are your best investment :slight_smile:

I guess it’s really discouraging from having both spouses work, since you need to have quite a high salary to make up for kita cost difference. That said it’s only for a few years right? Things get easier once kids start to go to school?

In Switzerland or otherwise, kids are the ultimate value investments. Long gestation periods, potential deep drawdowns (teenage hormones) , sleepless nights with the hope that all will turn out well in the long run.

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they might or might not be good value, 16-20 years later… financially speaking.
Emotionally, of course.

well Kindergarten is only up to 12:00, so someone has to be home at noon to give them lunch.
You still pay for the Hort (afternoon daycare) afterwards :slight_smile:
Saying that 'it’s only the first 6 years", for two kids it might be an 8-10 year long phase. I can’t allow my SO to not work that long.

But finally, we’ve lived a savvy life all these years just to be cheaper to hire a big-ass single family house with a basement apartment for a live-in au-pair… kinda bursts my bubble…

This depends on the canton I guess. In TI they are there the whole day (incl. lunchtime if mensa available).

I think it’s great that we don’t live in a socialist country where people with no kids pay the kita for people with kids through higher taxes.

You want a nice sports car? Be able to afford it.
You want nice holidays? Be able to afford them.
You want kids? Be able to afford them.

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In Switzerland, women get on average 1.5 children.

This is pretty far away from a sustainable 2.1 children per women and will cause major issues in 30+ years regarding health care cost and old age insurance. We already have major problems in these areas and it’s only going to get worse.

Maybe it costs a bit, but we really should get this number up to a more sustainable range. We can’t compensate for it with immigration forever. It is a very long term investments in our future and not comparable to holidays or a nice car.

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This is why I’m a stay at home mom… how much less money would you have if your wife or you would stay at home and rise the kids instead of having them go to Kita? this is the calculation that me and my husband did and decided that the extra money that is left at the end of the month with me working is not worth it. And I’m actually super happy like this because I love being able to stay with my girl the whole day.

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Most of the times it’s not just about worth “during” the time you stay at home, but also to not lose your “career status” forever.

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sure, we loved staying at home as well (me for 5 weeks, she for 1 year) - though being home until the time when your 2 kids don’t need anyone anymore being home is about 8-10 years (assuming 2 yrs between kids)

How is a woman returning to work after 6-10 yrs of not working?

(sorry for spoiling the thread a little)

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I guess it also depends what job you have before quitting. I was an application specialist working for a medical company, so I was travelling let’s say 3weeks out of 4 every month and I was away (Europe-Africa) from monday to friday. So basically even the decision of having a child completely killed my opportunity of going back to my job after maternity leave.

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I think we should not put kids and cars or holidays together :). As @xorfish correctly mentioned - someone has to work in the future to make things rolling…

On the other hand I really don’t understand why married couples should pay more than unmarried ones. Not to be accused of wanting to live in a socialist country ;), I think it should not matter at all and the taxes should be the same…

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Well, yes and no… children contribute to growth (so your dividends) and don’t forget that
our kids will probably wipe your butt when you will be old :crazy_face:
If it is financially too discouraging for parents (mainly mothers) to make kids it leads to other issues in the long-term
With 2 kids and no grand-parents to babysit (not their role anyway), childcare costs around 50k per year in Zurich until the kids are more or less independant… not asking to get it for free, but damn 50k :expressionless:

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Beyond factors like profession, salary, and childcare expense, what also matters in some cases (atleast us) is that our families and childhood friends are thousands of miles away. So going to work becomes essential part of social belonging and interaction. My wife would like to find a ~60-80% job (as a scientist in academia/industry). It might not bring in much in terms of money but help her stay professionally relevant and hopefully get some good social interaction.

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That’s not socialism. Government funded kitas and schools are a result of social policies. It doesn’t follow that the means of production are suddenly owned by the state.

People with no kids also pay taxes which fund the schools. I at least would like our future generations to be educated. That feeds directly into a more productive workforce which we need in the future.

Supporting kitas allows for the already educated parents to continue contributing to the society. That generates more tax revenue and more wealth. I find it a terrible loss of skills when one parent is forced to stay at home. They most likely received an education, had work experience, and now are blocked from working. If they were working, their taxes would also go towards paying for the kita. :wink:

In the end every one of us pays taxes or insurance for something we don’t use and it’s still not socialism.

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I feel for you. As the father of two children I know it’s an expensive road to travel. The only financial benefit are the sizeable tax deductions.

Not really. If you want to work full time you still have to organize (pay) the following in primary school and kindergarten:

  • lunch (not offered at school)
  • afternoon and/or evening care on the days they get out early (usually Wednesdays always finish before noon)
  • the seemingly random days when the teachers decide to have a training day and there is no school
  • vacations (1-2 week every 6 weeks)
  • public holidays which don’t match your days off work

It gets more complicated if your kids have different afternoons off like mine do. They both only have morning school on Wednesday but the younger one also has a short day on Monday. In kindergarten she had more of those but not every day.

Finally, when your kids grow up the other costs grow with them. It’s not a winning equation but it also shouldn’t be considered as such.

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This! My wife is highly educated and was very successful in her job. She had to sacrifice a lot, not just the professional life but also the pension which is not accumulating at home. As I mentioned earlier, it’s a huge loss of opportunity for the society when one parent has to stay at home. Even worse is that it’s usually the mother.

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The reason why we make less kids nowadays isn’t cost. My brother had 3 kids, hise wife works 20% and they both earn 90k in total. They are still able to have a family car from Dacia, go on holidays 5 weeks a year. It’s all about setting priorities in life and adjusting your expenses.

Main reason why we don’t make kids anymore is because we realized that kids aren’t the only purpose in life and you can die happy without ever having them. I’ve never heard of anyone saying “I would love to have kids, but they are too expensive”.

P.s. Immigration won’t ever stop. By the end of this century there will be 4 billion people in Africa and still rising. More than enough human capital, no need to make your own to sustain society.

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Personally I would extremely happy if my wife gets a scientific job of her specialization in academic facility /pharma/biotech (she has PhD + 4 years of good work experience in EU). And we both work 80% for few years, maybe forever. That would really be a good for our family and professional/financial lives. Better spend more time with children as they grow up. Let’s see what future brings.

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