Chemical engineer starting salary and imaginary budget review

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21

Moi Kokko,

Nice to see fellow Finnish people here on the forum :smile:
I have pretty much the same set up as you being 26, single and came from Finland to Switzerland straight from the university (i have a business background). I can share some takes on my experiences living in Zug.

I came here a bit over year ago first for half a year internship and then stayed full time. Salary wise that is in the ball park what I’m getting in Zug (though i think that by changing the firm it could be 10-15k higher). My net income (i.e. money i get on my bank account every month) is roughly 82% of the gross after all deductions (taxes, social security, pension etc.). I think that ETH Salary calculator gives most realistic view on what to expect tax and deduction wise.

Mandatory health insurance for me with maximum deductible is about 190 CHF per month and supplementary another 60 CHF (i don’t really consider this as a cost as the supplementary insurance pays same amount for my gym membership.)

In a WG (shared apartment) I have been paying 1100CHF per month but now i’m moving in my own apartment that costs 1450CHF per month (Note that it took me about 5 months to find and get this apartment as in Zug the demand for cheap apartments i.e. below 1500CHF is crazy)

For groceries prices (in lidl) are pretty much the same as in Finland except meat and fish is more expensive, from Zug you cannot really take advantage of German or French prices without a car.

Public transport I do not have anything else but Halbtax (180CHF/year) as I live 5 min walk away from work. However the occasional bus ride and train ride to Zurich costs around 60CHF a month. In this category I would also add a provision for flight tickets as I’m sure you want to visit home every now and then (for me around 4 times a year 350CHF per flight with Finnair i.e. 120CHF per month)

Phone I have no cost as my employer i paying this. Cheapest option is probably prepaid Lycamobile with limited internet usage.

Internet/Electricity/Utilities have been included in my rent so no additional cost (my flatmate have been taking care of these). For houshold insurance I have Baloise younGo that cost 120CHF per year and i believe it is the cheapest option with best coverage if you are below 30.

Gym membership for me is 1420CHF/Year (Migros fitness) which is probably one of the most expensive options available, however, I have access to all migros gyms in switzerland and here in Zug they have the best opening hours, convenient location for me and also really good saunas :wink: I could also think that this cost is 500CHF less as the supplementary insurance is paying this part but i want to consider that the insurance is free and i’m paying for the gym :smile:

Additionally I would add some buffer for seemingly random costs you may not be aware. To name few I have faced: Serafe (local public broadcasting tax paid per household) about 360CHF/year, In Zug 100CHF/ year for fire protection, Initial costs registering to the local municipality and getting your L/B-permit about 100CHF, changing your drivers licence after a year about 160CHF, changing the name plates in your mail box and door 80CHF etc. Even though many of these costs are “one off” i would at least mentally take these into account.

Also assuming that you don’t know many people in Switzerland before coming here I would increase the budget for going out for some beers you will find your self going to the bars more often to see new people :wink:

So all in all in Zug I consider saving 3000CHF a month possible but a bit stretch, 2500CHF should be doable quite easily when you avoid the biggest money mistakes.

If you need any other help or comments from Finns perspective, shoot me a message!

Also have met few Finnish guys working in Pulp/Paper industry here in Zug so they might have better knowledge on the Job market side.

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22

As a renter the only thing you sometimes require (asked for by the flat owner) is a personal liability insurance (which I would strongly recommend anyway). Personal Liability insurance will cover some damage to the flat. (things that happen suddenly, e.g. you drop something on the floor, you set the place on fire etc. but not damage that happens over time, e.g. you smoke in the flat). This you can get with a reasonable detuctible for CHF 50 /year from Smile Direct or Elvia.

The home insurance that is sold in Switzerland usually is a combination of personal liability and household which is an insurance for your own furniture and stuff. (theft, damage etc.). Unless you have really expensive stuff that you cannot easily replace I deem this insurance unnecessary. And this is what drives the cost up to 200-300.

Against what is common practice in Switzerland in most cases I would recommend to only pick up a personal liability insurance.

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23

A positive thing with the household insurance is coverage for sports and electronics equipment - came in very handy to me when i had my bike(s) stolen and phone broken. :slight_smile:

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Sure, but in the end insurance is statistics and the odds are against you, otherwise the insurance company would not make money. Unless you know more than the insurance company (e.g. you know you loose your stuff all the time and insure that) it’s usually better to just put the savings from the premiums aside and pay out of pocket.

But I know people in Switzerland like to insure everything for peace of mind. Personally I only insure what could ruin me and not my stuff :grinning:

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I agree that people often over-insure, yet in this case 175CHF/year is worth the peace of mind for me, and I don’t see it a considerable saving if I went without it. :slight_smile:
For my specific case it was indeed worth it, not only the peace of mind - however I agree I am probably an outlier in the statistics. :smiley:

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26

I generally agree, but check out this example:

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You pay 138 CHF for the whole household (I have provided 2 adults). Over the course of your life, let’s say you will pay this insurance for 50 years, that makes it about 7000 CHF. Let’s say that over this period you will get your bike worth 2000 stolen once and that there is a 10% chance that your flat burns down or gets flooded or burgled, which will cost you 50’000. That’s the break even point already. Of course, you might argue that this probability is way lower, and probably you’re right. I guess I understand taking this insurance when you live in a big house with lots of furniture and some expensive professional equipment (sports, electronics, hobby).

What really puzzles me is that the liability insurance (Haftpflicht) was calculated at 65 CHF for a single person. But for “several persons” it only goes up to 85 CHF. How is that logical? And they don’t really ask how many people should be insured, so I guess it’s the whole household that gets it? Any ideas?

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At least smile.direct asks how many additional people you want. But I think this has to do with the fact that most liability claims are because of damage in the rented flat/home. So the logic here seams to be that you are still insuring mostly the same stuff. Home owners also get a discount on their liability insurance because they will not have to cover damage to the home.

But I agree that the price difference is way too small, but there might be other (marketing?) reasons for this pricing strategy.

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I thought that you mainly take Haftpflicht because of such situations like:

  • you pushed an old lady while on bike and now shes got a broken hip and months of rehab
  • you tripped in an art museum, destroying some modern sculpture
  • your groceries fell down on train tracks, disorganising the timetable for half of Zurich :wink:

Very unlikely events, but costs go in millions.

Didn’t know that Haftpflicht covers your own possessions in your home. I thought it’s more like: you tripped at your friends house and pushed the TV off the cupboard.

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I think what he means is damage to the building itself (which doesn’t belong to you if you rent).

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Makes sense, I guess the probability of burning or flooding a flat that you’re renting is quite high. That would partially explain the reduced rate for multiple persons.

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Correct, I didn’t phrase that clearly. Fixed.

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So today we spoke about the possibility of your flat burning down and now the Notre Dame has burnt down… Such terrible news! :cry:

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Yeah I you probably need more than the standard liability insurance in this case :grimacing:

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This dicussion took place years ago but i have a question to ask.
What do you know about the overall view of slovenia in switzerland and slovenian universities (or university of Ljubljana, the capital city, to be exact)?

Im planning to pursue a degree there in chemical engineering and my end goal is Switzerland but im not sure of how much it is worth there.
Ive heard its harder for foreigners to land jobs or at least for non EU citizens. Im from a non EU european country, but getting a degree in a more reputable country i assumed would make a big difference.

Also, im confused. Medium salary for chemical engineers right out of college ive looked up online are always around 80k.
But thats the same amount you discussed five years ago. Whats that about?

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Entry salaries in Switzerland tend to evolve slowly: the leverage is all in the hands of the companies who do not have a compelling reason to pay more, except for special talent. In my experience, low workforce availability doesn’t change that. People have been complaining for years that we don’t have enough civil engineers but entry salaries haven’t moved an inch → we tend to recruit more foreign engineers to compensate (which doesn’t drive salaries up).

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I would say, in general, most Swiss don’t know much about Slovenia. And if they do then more because of tourism rather than their university.

It can be tricky to find a job as a non-EU-person due to hiring quotas, so you kinda have to overshadow the other applicants in other areas (skills, where you’ve studied,…) to make the cut.

If you plan to end up in Switzerland, have you thought about studying here? That would likely give you the best chances to get a job afterwards, as companies are more familiar with your education then.

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For a non-EU citizen to land a job in Switzerland, things are complex due to work permit regulations.

The main rule is -: employer needs to prove that you are the „only“ candidate they can hire. This means they couldn’t find anyone in CH or EU. So the issue is that you don’t need to be the best candidate, you need to have so unique skills that they cannot fill locally. For fresh graduates it is very difficult because without any experience , on what basis would employer prove that you are so unique.

In simple words. Unless employer really need you, they will not go through this legal process. I believe AI , machine learning etc might be more interesting as these skills are still rare. But chemical engineering graduates are available in reasonable numbers locally.

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39

Search for graduate programs with your companies of interest.
Often they want to (at least partially) fill in those positions with outside of CH candidates.

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A majority wouldn’t be able to distinguish Slovenia, Slovakia, and Yugoslavia.

If you mention it, it’s quite logical that there is a university in the capital of a country, but otherwise people would have 0 idea. So, don’t try to impress with your university credentials.

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I haven’t even considered it honestly, mainly because of the cost of living. Not only is it one of the most expensive countries in the world, but being from a much lower earning country, saving up pre hand isn’t an option.

I’m not sure if working while at Uni is possible?

  1. STEM fields (besides computer sciences) usually require regular class attendance and
  2. I’ve heard even the service industry in Switzerland requires you to have some sort of certification or training in hospitality.

International student acceptance is highly selective from what I’ve read, a 4.7 GPA (on a 1.00 to 5.00 scale) probably wouldn’t suffice.
Although you have me thinking, maybe i need to look into it more.