Can I stay de-registered from Switzerland and be "stateless" for the rest of my working years?

Taxes
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I left Switzerland several years ago and de-registered from the Gemeinde.

I ended up in the US, where I still live and work (and pay taxes). My work authorization is ending though so my plan is to pick up a digital nomad lifestyle and slow-travel through various countries. I have a fully remote job that I plan to take with me. I discussed this with my current (US) employer and they will turn into a client and I will be an “overseas contractor”.

I am planning to stay in the EU where I can stay visa-free or in other countries that offer remote worker visas (ideally without taxing foreign income). The plan is to do this until I hit my FIRE number (~5-7 years if things go well)

I would like to stay in CH for a while to catch up with family, while working into the evening hours. My question is whether I should register with the Gemeinde in Switzerland again, and how long I can stay in CH per year without getting into trouble.

My gut feeling is that this is some kind of legal grey area, aka don’t ask, don’t tell, or can you find any rules about this? I looked long and hard and can’t find any sources on the topic that apply to my case.

I have bank accounts in the US (some of which confirmed they do not require me to be US resident) and I opened a US LLC to bill clients (which does not trigger US taxes for non-US business owner). I also have a physical address in my name with a mail forwarding service, so I will be able to receive mail and payments. My investments are mostly with Charles Schwab, who also said I could keep my account as an international customer, and with IBKR. I also have a Wise account as my multi-currency checking account.

Despite this US-based setup, I will cease to be tax resident in the US once I leave, and I am not in a hurry to pick up a tax residency again anywhere until there is a good reason to do so.

Switzerland does not offer any good reasons right now. I have no property, assets, bank accounts or other official ties to the country, apart from a measly AHV stake from contributing for a few years (this is not part of my retirement plan lol). Another point: the last thing I want is being asked to go back and finish my military service. :stuck_out_tongue:

Eventually tho I would like to quit my job and settle in CH and/or somewhere sunny, so I don’t want to burn any bridges anywhere if I can avoid it.

Has anyone here done something similar? Did any of you de-register in CH and never re-register? What are the pitfalls I must watch out for as a “stateless” person?

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Define “for a while”. Here is some information: Switzerland - Individual - Residence

Where is that physical address in your name? The tax office of said country could argue that you have a presence, since you have a physical address there.

There exist quite a lot of countries that don’t tax foreign income. You should keep in mind, that even if you generate foreign income (in your eyes), but do the actual work in the country, it’s sometimes not considered as such. Doesn’t matter where your clients are.

You always have to check, how long you can stay in a country, how it works with foreign sourced income, etc. And that for ideally 5-7 years non-stop, “if things go well”.

You are not the only person that wants to do this, there are a lot of resources… Honestly, I’d just advice you to consult a tax professional for such things. I’d rather spend a few thousand on a good setup, instead of getting charged for tax evasion or similar later on.

Another thing: Your employer will be the only client of your LLC? Do you have a backup plan if they fire you?

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Many of your questions were discussed here

If you are working whilst physically in Switzerland, I believe you should voluntarily declare it even if you are not resident here. Same applies to working in most other countries whilst “on holiday”

A different question is if you don’t declare whether the authorities have a way of finding out

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Can I stay de-registered from Switzerland and be “stateless” for the rest of my working years?

No.

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can I browse the cinema’s wardrobe and pocket in all pennies I find in the jackets? There is no video surveillance, no-one monitors the wardrobe and people probably wouldn’t notice anyways. Yes you CAN… but you shouldn’t…

It’s both morally wrong and a legal offense. Please don’t expect any support on how to best do this.

The only legal way is if you become tax resident in a (tax friendly) country and then declare all your staycations to local tax authorities (and pay corresponding income taxes as per the respective country’s tax laws. You MUST have at least one tax residency.

For full disclosure, i flagged your request considering the topic you raised is illegal.

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Note: all those accounts will be reported to the country you told the bank you’re a tax resident of. I’m pretty sure when they’ll receive the data they’ll also expect to receive a tax filing from you :grinning:

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A US LLC needs to have a registered agent and address in the US and the LLC bank account can be registered there.

However I assume a US tax return would be required for the LLC. In addition there is new legislation that requires LLCs to file a beneficial owner report.

OP is asking about the rules . I don’t think that in itself is illegal

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They mention schwab/ibkr for their investment, I assumed those were not held by the LLC. (only client billing was)

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US tax return needs to be filed for the LLC [1], you are correct. His advantage is just, that his LLC doesn’t have any presence in the US, it’s a pass-through entity and he doesn’t live there, so 0% tax bill in the US.

The Corporate Transparency Act has been ruled unconstitutional [2], but let’s see the end result.

[1] https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-5472
[2] Corporate Transparency Act ruled unconstitutional: What it means for Beneficial Ownership Reporting | Wolters Kluwer

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I think that’s not correct and this is a overreaction.

Many, if not most countries tax local income and only go for global income once there’s tax residency. Often, one criterion is after some 180-day presence.

I’ve been in this situation. I got taxed on my local living allowance, the CH salary went untaxed and straight to investments and diving trips. The fancy company-paid housing, pool, gym and tennis court included wasn’t taxed, either. Good times :joy:

Note: The taxes were back then were done not based on info from some social media channel, but with a Big 4 accounting firm.

I wasn’t actively looking for it, it just happened. Actively doing this for several years is different, and certainly not for me anymore, but it should be allowed to discuss.

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Thank you for that source, exacty what I was looking for. Says there I can work 30 days. This should cover a family visit. thanks!

Can you recommend a tax professional who can help me clear things up? I do want to do this by the book. All I can find are youtubers and some other ones that seem really scammy.

Backup plan if I get fired is to return to a boring old life full time in CH. I have a standing job offer so not too worried.

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Negative, this is still tax fraud. Swiss Taxation does not apply if you visit Switzerland as a tourist. If you however work in Switzerland, you are only tax exempt if you both i) work for less than X days and ii) tax your income elsewhere.

Considering that you would simply not tax you income anywhere, you will on your very first day of working in Switzerland commit tax fraud. Just as a reminder, this is a criminal offence that could worst case put you into jail. Probably not in Switzerland but there are countries that take this stuff very serious.

The logic is quite simple, you must tax your income somewhere. You could of course choose to tax your income in a country without income tax (like Dubai). That would put you in a compliant situation (as long as you don‘t exceed the maximum work / stay durations in Switzerland).

Your approach of simply hopping countries and not paying income tax anywhere is a major Problem, its illegal and this Threat in my view deserves a block and deletion.

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I don’t know any tax professionals who provide such a service. You’re correct, there are many unreliable sources online, which kind of underscores the complexity of your idea.

It’s clear to me that you haven’t consulted with any professional and probably didn’t do a lot of research yourself, that’s why you asked your question here. Are you prepared to spend thousands of dollars and endless hours just to (maybe) improve your tax situation?

Does your income justify all these things? What about your investments? If you have US stocks, you will now automatically pay 30% taxes on dividends, because no double taxation agreement applies to you (Or go with Ireland, then it’s just 15% lost).

As you can see, you will never achieve 0%, because you now have additional costs for plane flights, local tax attorneys, headaches with the consulates if you need to renew things, high rent of AirBnBs, etc.

Just permanently move to a zero or low-tax country, if the low tax rate is so important to you (Switzerland is an option…). But remember, the less taxes you pay, the less service you normally get.

It’s not illegal and the discussion shouldn’t be censored.

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Apologies for doubling-down here, but there’s nothing illegal or tax-fraudy about that. Legally, I understand there’s a mostly clear distinction between tax avoidance, evasion and fraud.

I get the moral objections of hopping countries to avoid taxes, but if @SidiAbdelAssar wants to have the experience for whatever reason, just let them and ask here to clarify some questions. I’d be here for that, not to judge or be judged. :wink:

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Routing your salary through an LLC is no issue. Outside of the US, thats generally not very tax efficient, but thats ok.

Making the LLC pay you a „black“ salary that was neither taxed nor subject to Social Security is both morally questionable and potentially violating labour laws of the country in which the LLC was incorporated (US). From a Swiss point of view, that is still a non-Event and not relevant as such.

But working out of Switzerland and thereby effectively working in Switzerland becomes interesting. Upon applying the Permit-Less, temporary work out of Switzerland Work „visa“, the OP represents that he was legally employed by his LLC and that he (wherever that may be) was tax resident somewhere. This is however factually wrong and we therefore talk about a fraudulent mis-representation.

Considering that work takes place in Switzerland, the OP violates the condition of the Work Permit he applies and that this was all based on the fraudulent mis-representation that he was tax resident elsewhere and his income taxed there… I think that we indeed talk about tax fraud here but not just tax optimization or tax evasion. I don‘t think that we should entertain such conversations in this community.

As long as OP doesnt work in Switzerland, its probably a borderline case but the Problem starts as he starts to work in Switzerland. We are not the Emirates or another tax haven here.

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The US LLC is a business structure that offers limited liability protection and pass-through taxation. It’s a separate entity from it’s owners, BUT the pass-through taxation of the LLC means that the business income is not taxed at the entity level (LLC), but instead directly passed through the owners. Since the owner, in this case, doesn’t live in the US, no tax is due in the US (conditions apply obviously). You are therefore not required to pay SS and are not violating any labour laws [source], again in the US.

The country he will be operating from, that’s the intersting part.

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Thanks for clarifying. I didn’t focus on the LLC part, and the original post is still hidden. Also, don’t want to get too involved in the topic :smiley:

I agree that advice on intentional tax evasion is where we should draw the line. I just don’t see it here (edit: Oswand answered about the same time). Otherwise, I think it’s helpful to have those discussions visible, so both OP and others can learn from it.

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I think OP got all the answers he needed. I am closing the thread as I don’t want it to derail into a how-to about tax evasion.

Bottom line : OP, if you come to work in Switzerland, you’ll need to have a valid tax residency declared or you will fall into fraud.

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