What about rhodium? 
Hi @chca,
after a nice upmarket March 2020 to now April/May 2021, I though it would be wise to go into gold for a small hedge.
I will build up a 5% position (considering the post from @hippo) on DE000A0S9GB0 Xetra-Gold (0% TER)
This is more based on my wish/preference to own some gold then any calculation of returns. Gold as hedge does not seam to be so uncorrelated with total stock market. Currency of the ETF seam to be a point to consider also (as I will be buying the ETF with margin in EUR, EUR & USD have better margin rates than CHF at Degiro and European based ETC seams better in case of delivery 
).
I also agree with @hippo on Gold with VIAC, so I am liquidating my position there per end of April. Up to today though it was the easiest place for me to have Gold exposure without paying transaction fee (I had a very low amount of CHF 400). As my stock + ETF portfolio got some momentum/size I think it is wise now to change my Gold position to Degiro.
Iâve considered a lot the option of physical gold. Spreads are high, liquidity is low, trust by buying and selling is required, storage would be an issue.
Interesting. The website for that ETF strikes me as not very confidence-inspiring⊠Xetra-Gold ETC â bond on gold holdings traded in euros | Xetra-GoldÂź
That and the 0% TER⊠I am assuming that itâs a complex derivatives structure whose risk profile is near impossible to evaluate. True?
Why not?
About us sounds and looks good so far. And thereâs a monthly safekeeping fee (though in the end it depends on your bank what youâre going to be charged).
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On first glance it looks like some dodgy poker website, but now I see the model is wearing paper (not gold) jewellery so I guess there is some sort of humour there. But it is a bit tacky - I doubt she is the fund manager. I am used to Vanguard etc. websites where you get the staid details and little more in terms of marketing.
It appears to actually be a physically-backed gold ETF, not some complex derivatives structure. It actually looks like a really interesting choice for holding some gold in a portfolio.
Cannot buy on DEGIRO - not sure why.
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Cannot buy on DEGIRO - not sure why.
you need to âfee it upâ on your settings. Yes, it is an ETC. I see no reason not to hold it just because of that. Sounds, solid for me.
âUnlike other Exchange Traded Products/Commodities, the investorâs right to receive delivery1) of gold is not reduced by management costs or other fees. For example, an annual management fee of 0.39 per cent would reduce your gold holdings by 7.5 per cent over 20 years, while 1,000 Xetra-GoldÂź securities will still equal a kilogram of gold in 20 yearsâ time. Xetra-GoldÂź is only subject to custody fees payable by the owner of the bearer note. The custody fees are currently at approximately 0.3 per cent p.a. (plus value-added tax), which are reported separately (source: ETF portfolios made simple | justETF).â
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Hello: can you recommend a good physical gold trader please?
Is Sincona in Zurich good?
Merci!
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Spoiler: gold (and small caps) donât create any drag, rather they make your portfolio more performant and resilient!
Thanks very much.
Like Sincona it seems like a retail operation aimed at coins and small retail bars, with wide spreads. Iâm looking more at the abillity to deal with the more serious bars you see in James Bond movies - ie 400 ounces âGood Deliveryâ bars.
Any thoughts?
Sorry, no, I did not deal with such amount.
Ok. Thanks for responding.
Doesnât UBS have a counter for clients? I think they just donât advertise it anymore, and donât sell to non-clients.
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I buy my bullion at Migrosbank. Was competitive compared to Degussa at last purchase a few years ago.
The buy-sell spread for 250g and up bars was about 1%, compared to around 2.5% at Degussa.
| Beispiel (am 13.9.2016) Degussa | Spread | ||
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 kg Goldbarren | 41052 | 42037 | 2.34% |
| 500 g Goldbarren | 20575 | 21096 | 2.47% |
| 250 g Goldbarren | 10287 | 10568 | 2.66% |
| MiBank 15.9.16 | Spread % | |
|---|---|---|
| Kauf | Verkauf | |
| 20596 | 20796 | 0.96% |
| 10296 | 10416 | 1.15% |
Practical question : Where do you actually keep that gold ?
Or are you only buying it via certificates ?
Not sure if youâre asking me or the other person speaking of 400 ounce bars (worth about 800k).
For my much lesser amounts (1-3% of NW, say 10k-60k worth) this could be an option:
âa safety deposit box at a bank.
approx Fr 100 p.a., so if you have a NW of 1M and 5% gold then 0.2% p.a.â
Anybody invest in a good safe for home? That may be an option if one owns a house.
I agree that philoro offers decent rates and works very well, with prompt delivery after receiving your payment.
It might be interesting to compare several physical gold traders on the website Gold.ch (on a week day - on weekends, some sellers have their online shops closed). The website shows the current prices for each item with each seller, more or less in real time. I had good experiences with several other physical gold traders listed on that site beside philoro (e.g. Echtgeld in Bern - if you live near Bern, you can get your order delivered at their small shop very close to the main railway station). In recent months, several times, I found the best prices at Rheingold Edelmetall, located in Liechtenstein.
When I want to order physical gold, I compare first on Gold.ch in order to see which among my preferred sellers offers the best rates (pay also attention to shipping rates, that may vary from one to another). Degussa and Pro Aurum are certainly reliable physical gold traders, but more expensive, thus I do not really see a reason to use them (unless you want to rent a safe with them, maybe).
I should add that, if you have an account at a cantonal bank, they may offer better rates than gold traders, especially when it comes to gold bars of 500 g or 1,000 g. If you have an account at a cantonal bank, it might be a good idea to call your contact person there and ask what the current price for the gold bar you want is, while keeping an eye on the comparison tables of Gold.ch, and you can then decide what the best option is.
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And if you are still looking for 400 ounces, maybe you should inquire from GoldAvenue, headquartered in Geneva. Since they are the official online reseller of the MKS PAMP GROUP (and PAMP produces such goldbars), I guess that they could help you. GoldAvenue is a reliable seller, eager to interact with customers (their CEO has Q&A live sessions on YouTube from time to time). I should add, that, like Dago, I did never deal with such amounts, my positive experience is based on much smaller orders.
I recently got a couple of gold bullion coins that I donât want to keep but I have now idea how these transactions work.
I donât want to go through much hassle but my instinct tells me to stay a mile away of those gold dealers popping up here and there.
@rolandinho mentioned Migrosbank, can I just show up at any bank counter and sell them the coins to get cash on the spot?
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Iâve never sold up till now, but thatâs the way I understood it when I bought.
Since banks donât always have cash at the counter these days I imagine you go in, sell to the bank at their daily rate and they transfer to your bank account.
This should be the way for official bars and common coins (Krugerrand, Vreneli, etc.).
Ask at 2-3 different banks to get an idea of the spread they are going to âchargeâ you.
(I found the buy-sell spread to be about 1.5% for small bars (100g, 250g), whereas coins can easily be 5%. That is you pay 2.5% more than XAU/CHF and get 2.5% less when selling. Just so u know a little what you could expect.)
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