Any Good Instruments for Shorting Swiss Market & Options Play?

Investing / Portfolios
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I have been staying out of Swiss market since forever, focusing mostly on NYSE & NASDAQ, but this time it looks rather gloomy for Swiss market - there is no room to grow. It looks to me sinking ship captain will try any desperate measures to delude themselves. Yesterdays economic sentiment index sunk into desperation-depression region and yet market up. Ridicules.
Too good to pass on this stupidity.
Is there anything like SPY for shorting and options play? Reversed SMICHA, SLICHA, CHDVD perhaps?

Best would be SPY equivalent with a decent liquidity, because those SMICHA’s, SLICHA’s have imbecilic spreads sometimes.

Lets tank this holed ship :slight_smile:

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CarryOnDeludeIdiots
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ILoveIdiotsAndImbeciles
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Yea. But go up, by all means folks. Just don’t look up.

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Wow, finally somebody with balls of steel.

Probably the SMI Future traded at Eurex is your cheapest and most liquid option. I have no experience as I don’t touch the Swiss market.

But remember: “He who sells what isn’t his’n… must buy back or go to pris’n.”

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Thanks mate. It’s true that facing reality requires some serious cognitive powers…And balls/And female equivalent

You made a seriously valid point:

Quote: But remember: “He who sells what isn’t his’n… must buy back or go to pris’n.”

True. All true. Don’t do this guys. Don’t never go short. Use reversed ETF’s or puts.

Good luck to you all.

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Great that we have at least one specimen here then!
Go ahead and share your voyage here. :raising_hands:

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Doin’ it

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Do you use the future? As I said it is the cheapest option with the most liquidity and the biggest leverage. A bit more expensive are options on the future…

And contrary to stocks or ETF every future trade has a short and a long participant.

New highs yesterday and in my experience those are sold at first. But it was not the first high in this bull market which may be still continue… (not talking about Swiss stocks, don’t follow them).

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I use futures. Yes. But not in Swiss market. For now I just created 3 months put on ETF’s - not perfect. But it will do. Futures is overkill for me - for Swiss Market

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Unless I don’t know something - you know. Please share.

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Depending on what size you are considering, there are many leverage products offered by swiss issuers (banks) that cater to smaller volumes. Mini-futures, warrants or daily leverage products. Liquidity is provided by issuers and is generally good, just if you want to sell the moment market tanks 5% you will probably need some minutes to sell bc the issuer is unable to unwind his hedge.

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Thank you Ternes 11

for responding.

Could you provide any examples? I mean, so far I hear it’s futures - so far.
the problem with futures is simple.

Even me - 27 years in investing - futures are not fucking simple. Kapisch?

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Swiss example.

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Btw. You must be feeling the AI shit to even respond. Are you packing your stuff?

I am java dev - I love my Cloude assistant.

Tell me more about your rage

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Futures are simple, a simple contract to buy or sell in the future at a fixed price. I did trade SP500 and Dow Futures and Future Options at the CME in my youth.

Now warrants are a completely different story. Technically those are bonds with strange payback terms and where you pay a risk premium instead of getting one. You are at the grace of the emitting company for liquidity and liquidity seem to go close to zero when there is the slightest problem.

Warrants are good business… for the emitting company which usually is the market maker too. I would not touch one with gloves.

Futures are normally a number higher in nominal value but you have much more leverage, better liquidity and lower trading costs.

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Thanks Dude.

Appreciated.

But I really meant what I said. Give us an example. And how to follow it.

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Sorry man, can’t do because I don’t touch Swiss stocks. Or Eurex. Just Chicago or New York.

CME examples:

  1. Add trading permissions for futures (I think today some questions easily answered by AI). A few minutes at IB.
  2. Check the multipliers (sorry, Eurex you have to search for yourself), here for the SP500 mini, the most traded index future in the world: E-mini S&P 500 Overview - CME Group
  3. Check your margin and sell.
  4. (if long term) Roll over every 3 months at the rollover day (find out about rollover day).
  5. Buy back when target price is reached.

That is it. At IB the futures movements are settled in your cash in real time. So, after a sell you see no change, if it goes down you have more cash, if it goes up less. Check for enough cash to cover margin requirements. That is all…

Addendum: most people I know (including me myself) lost money shorting. It is against the odds. Already the measurement unit, money, is twisted. Markets can be foolish much longer than you can be liquid!

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So mini futures you can choose the SMI as an underlying for example. The financing level is where the issuer goes short, so the further away the financing level is from the underlying level, the less leverage the product has, the closer the more leverage there is. If the underlying gets to close to financing level (more specifically the knock out level) the product expires and product is worth 0.

Warrants are essentially just options repackaged (better for small sizes) and you cannot go short warrants only long. UBS has good brochures explaining these different kinds of products.

Always stay optimistic, make the best out of every situation, never stop learning, have a curious mindset. Have a strong network

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That you have to ask such questions, instead of easily finding the answer yourself, does point to the possibility that you don’t know what you are doing.

You wouldn’t happen to have any dependable research showing the reliability of your chosen signals for generating returns? What is your edge here?

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