AHV for Nichterwerbstätige

Anyone with first or second hand practical experience of being technically classified as Nichterwerbstätiger but still working and expected to pay or paying more AHV/IV/EO than the minimal amount of currently CHF 530 per year?

Asking for a friend …

Forum colleagues eager to point out what the rules are should be entitled to those views … but I am not really interested in them: I think I know what the rules are. If you find flaws in my description of the rules, feel free to point these out.

Background:

Said friend has reduced his working pensum to now 10% (but still pays AHV/IV/EO on this income). Technically, they’re now classified as Nichterwerbstätiger.* According to Merkblatt 2.03 they’re encouraged** to pay AHV/IV/EO according to their taxable wealth minus the AHV/IV/EO they still pay on their income.

If said friend had less than CHF 350’000 in taxable wealth*** they would have to pay the minimum of CHF 530 per year into AHV/IV/EO. If the person has more wealth, they’re encouraged** to pay additionally according to a formula, basically this table:


As mentioned, the person can substract from the amount due to wealth the amount of AHV/IV/EO still paid via their job.

Said friend has accounted for this additional “tax” many years before falling into the category of Nichterwerbstätige and has pre-calculated the amounts due and was about to contact the AHV Ausgleichskasse for arranging the details when their best friend, an HR and accounting expert fluent in calculating mandatory wage deductions like AHV/IV/EO, told them that the friend’s remaining 10% job resulted in a multiple of the minmal CHF 530 per annum of AHV/IV/EO contributions, that the AHV Ausgleichskasse is not informed by the employer about the working status of the employee – it could be that said friend works 10% in a high paying job or 80% in a shitty paying job or paid “volunteer like” work – and that therefore the AHV Ausgleichskasse will not notice that perhaps said friend is encouraged to be paying higher contributions.

My friend first thought that this was odd advice, especially coming from an HR and accountant expert, but then they warmed up to it: the AHV/IV/EO is mostly processed automatically and it seems unlikely that there’s tight monitoring to catch corner cases as there’s probably very few of them.

Anyhow, curious about any first or second hand stories forum members have, either from themselves or their … ahem, “friends”.


* Works less than 50% or fewer than 9 months per year.
** They don’t have to pay, but if the AHV Ausgleichskasse notices that they miss a Beitragsjahr, the AHV will be reduced accordingly to the number of missed Beitragsjahre.
** Arriving at the limit of CHF 350’000 is a little more complicated to calculate, but for the purpose of this discussion, it would really only be the taxable wealth.

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Would your friend pass the “Vergleichsrechnung”, i.e. the AHV payments resulting from the 10% work exceed half of what the amount based on wealth from “Nichterwerbstätigkeit” would be?

https://www.hslu.ch/-/media/campus/common/files/dokumente/w/w-ibr/fachbeitrag-zu-beitraege-der-nichterwerbstaetigen-an-die-1-sule.pdf

2.2.3 Vergleichsrechnung für nicht dauernd voll Erwerbstätige. Wer
nicht dauernd voll erwerbstätig ist, muss nicht automatisch
die Beiträge für die erste Säule basierend auf den Bestim
mungen für die Nichterwerbstätigen leisten. Vielmehr wird
für diese Kategorie der Versicherten eine Vergleichsrechnung
angestellt. Sofern die Beiträge aus Erwerbstätigkeit sowohl
den Mindestbetrag als auch mindestens die Hälfte der Bei
träge, die der Versicherte als Nichterwerbstätiger schulden
würde, übersteigen, untersteht der Versicherte dem Beitrags
statut der Erwerbstätigen, d. h., er gilt dann als schwer
gewichtig erwerbstätig. Somit schuldet er keine allenfalls
höheren Beiträge als Nichterwerbstätiger [19].
Damit wird unabhängig von der Erwerbsdauer und dem
Pensum in jedem Fall als erwerbstätiger Versicherter verab
gabt, wer mindestens die Hälfte des maximalen Betrags für
Nichterwerbstätige, d. h. CHF 11 950 (AHV/IV/EO) pro Jahr
als Beiträge geleistet hat (inkl. Arbeitgeberbeiträge). Dies
entspricht dem Bruttolohn eines unselbstständig Erwerbs
tätigen von rund CHF 117 000

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https://www.trex.ch/de/sozialversicherungen-ahv-beitraege-als-nichterwerbstaetige-0/

  1. Beispiel zur Sozialversicherungsoptimierung
    Dieser Rat stimmt nur so lange, als dass die AHV-Ausgleichskasse nicht z.B. anlässlich einer Sozialversicherungskontrolle Herrn S. als «Nichterwerbstätigen» einstuft. Dieser Umstand könnte je nachdem auch infolge einer Steuermeldung von der AHV-Ausgleichskasse erkannt werden. Die AHV-Ausgleichskasse wird Herr S. unterstellen, dass er als Kommunikationsberater mit einem Einkommen von CHF 20 000 vielleicht dauernd, aber wohl kaum voll (mehr als 50% der üblichen Arbeitszeit) beschäftigt ist.

and

  1. Fazit
    Durch die zunehmende elektronische Vernetzung von Amtsstellen und Ausgleichskassen ist zudem davon auszugehen, dass in Zukunft seitens der Ausgleichskassen vermehrt Abklärungen in Bezug auf eine mögliche Beitragspflicht als Nichterwerbstätige vorgenommen werden.

It seems trivial to query the database for people who declare much wealth, have low work income, but don’t register as “Nichterwerbstätig”. It probably won’t trigger with 350’000 wealth yet…

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Pensum % is declared in the tax return. If he wants to do this maybe better to work 50% and mostly from home.

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Huh. Didn’t know about this additional rule.

My friend unfortunately doesn’t reach half of the max contribution for Nichterwerbstätige, so wouldn’t qualify for this exception to the Vergleichsrechnung (as defined by the Merkblatt I referred to).

Thanks regardless for pointing it out!

That’s been my thinking as well and hence concluding that I’ll grudgingly pay whatever is suggested. My expert friend claims that “the database” won’t be queried … and that in the worst case – they find out – I won’t actually have to pay in but I “just” get punished for not having the full number of necessary contribution years for the full AHV to be paid out.

Maybe I’ll just have to run the numbers … amount I’ll pay in if adhering to the Merkblatt, amout I’ll get out in case of having fully contributed vs not, opportunity cost on the amount paid in compared to the reduced amount of AHV paid out …

Sure, but the tax office and the AHV Ausgleichskasse are different entities, not exchanging any data.

That’s the whole premise of my friend’s speculation based on advice of someone who supposedly knows how data is provided and exchanged.

For my friend’s plan to fail, either the tax authority would need to actively notify the AHV branch (of friend now working less than 50%) or the AVH branch would need to inquire either the friend or the tax office of what happened.
For case 2 – AHV branch inquiring – they state explicitly that doing things as desired is in the responsibility of the person having to pay AHV or else (missing contribution years) and that they – AHV branch – won’t act by themselves.
For case 1 … maybe the tax authority does this … maybe not? That’s what I was hoping to get out of this thread. :smiley:

He doesn’t need to reach half of the max contribution. Just half of contribution he’d otherwise have to make absent this rule.

It wouldn’t surprise me if there is no automatic exchange. But working in an industry where there are also these various information silos: the trend is for more AI, more analytics and more pooling of data. Even if it isn’t happening now, I would not gamble that it doesn’t happen in the next decade or two.

Personally, I’m happy to pay the AHV… it’s a cheap way of getting extra years. Just do wealth tax planning instead and it helps with with tax and AHV.

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Huh.

I somehow totally missed this.

Still, my friend falls below that category and still would have to pay additionally. My friend, as he’s told me personally, thinks these government agencies aren’t as data wise interconnected as is speculated here, given the various privacy regulations in place and having been even more restricted recently.

Anywho …

Luckily, my friend still has about a month or two to think about it. By then, he either contacts the AHV Ausgleichskasse to calculate the fair* share he’s supposed to pay in … or his wife will have a job working at least 50% at which point the friend is covered by the AHV contributions of his spouse.
Or he just says, eff-it, let’s see if they notice I’ll be technically missing Beitragsjahre.

Agreed in principle.

Having paid in (so far) low seven figures and in the future getting paid out a fraction of that – if ever – still makes me feel a little sour on this. I personally fully support pillar I as a social contract, but … well, let’s just say that I feel there’s a limit somewhere. Pretty sure I’ve already paid in the max.

After having paid in those low seven figures, I am not particularly excited to get additionally milked via tax on my wealth (fine, if within reason) but on additional IMO pretty fictional tax after stopping work further taxes imposed on my wealth.

Anywho, maybe best not to discuss this further here, but needless to say, I feel I’ve paid my fair share to society (via taxes).

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I’m not sure if missing Beitragsjahre is the worst that can happen. IIRC they can retroactively declare you nichterwerbstätig and collect five years back, adding interest over that time.

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Same here. I already paid the max, so it doesn’t matter for me how much AHV I pay in remaining years so long as I cover the year. So not working and being able to pay AHV is still an OK deal compared missing out on those years.

Anyway, the amounts in question are small. I’d just pay and sleep well at night.

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It went so well until you broke character :smiling_face_with_tear:

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I calculated an example:

3m taxable wealth → 7’579 CHF due every year.
Say you don’t pay this and invest it instead at 5% conservative CAGR from say 50 to 65. You will end up with 15’756 and every 5% from then on is >700.
Maximum AHV is 30’240 and not paying means 1/44 deducted. 1/44 is 687. So it doesn’t really make sense to pay up.
Sure the years closer to retirement have less compounding, but then the other side is you lose out 1/44 for every year not paid. And at 3m the amount due would take 11 years of 1/44 to be made up. And in all that time you can compound and 11 years means you are 76, kind of feel like by then you likely will start to spend less anyway.

Of course, the more taxable wealth you have the more incentive there is to just not pay and take the 1/44 hit every year.

But I guess there is no option to just say, nah, don’t want to pay, correct?

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The tax office definitely passes data to the SVA Ausgleichskasse. At least self-employed people get a bill from the SVA based on the tax assessment. There is sometimes a significant delay between the final tax bill and the SVA getting the information but there is definitely some direct data exchange between these entities.

I don’t know whether this also applies to “AHV for Nichterwerbstätige” but given that the entities are talking to each other, I would guess so. I know someone who paid AHV contributions after retiring early (completely stopped working, though, so a slightly different case). I’ll try to remember to ask them whether AHV automatically sent a bill or whether they informed the AHV on their own.

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Correct. It is mandatory.

I guess you can think of it like any other tax - you might pay a lot, but the expectation isn’t necessarily that you get more than you put into it.

But when you look at the bigger picture and consider what is hopefully a fortunate life situation, it may not seem like such a bad deal. Otherwise, you can always move to a zero-tax haven and live there instead.

Good for you. But it is not easy to accumulate the required maximum salary on average for 44 years. And it increases with inflation over the years. So at the age of 65 the required maximum salary amount will be higher than now.
Meaning that AHV contributions as “Nichterwerbstätiger” will also increase your AHV pension. And as the contributions are based on taxable wealth so will the AHV pension. Admittedly by small amounts. But it might help to get on the next level of the Skala 44.

May I inquire, in this case your friend intends to simply send his wife off to find a job and work (>=50%)?
This seems sensible, yet quite tough (depending of course).
Somewhat different topic, but my friend is always moaning about the fact that he is a stay-at-home house-man, including caring for a young mutual child, but his partner’s full time employment and lofty AHV contributions don’t cover his, simply since they are not officially married, which seems to him to be unfair.
But I always try to be supportive and mention to him, that in turn he will one day get the higher Einzelperson-AHV instead! He then shows his anxiety, and says he is sure that they will change that advantage by the time he gets there!

He also thinks it’s a joke that the Erziehungsgutschriften are not subtracted from his supposedly required Nichterwerbstätige AHV contributions. If you call it a Gutschrift, then make it a Gutschrift for everyone, not just for some.

PS To this topic, I would gladly share direct experience or friend’s related to your questions, but unfortunately I have no direct experience to share.

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Indeed not and I come to Switzerland later so only have 33 years to do (which also avoids the early years when you are earning less).

It’s a bit annoying you can’t cover the earlier years as I’d like to fill the earlier 11 years.

It’s not subtracted but added as a bonus. You friend sounds like a right old moaner. What did Beyonce say? “if you’d like to benefit from spouses’ AHV contributions then you should have put a ring on it”. :smiley:

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So the tax office looks at the Bemerkungen on the salary certificate? That’s the only place that states that the friend works less than 50%. And then they also check the friend’s wife salary certificate to see whether she also works less than 50%? And then, depending on the outcome, they notify the Ausgleichskasse?
Could be.

In my friend’s case, it’s a fair bit less as the taxable wealth is shared with his wife (AHV due is then calculated on 1.5m for him).

But thanks for the illustrative calculation!

It’s coincidental: the wife is already looking for a new job, independently of the friend’s work pensum.