3rd Pillar Switzerland

You can open and contribute to more than one 3a product in a year. You can distribute the maximum yearly contribution (currently CHF 7056) any way you like between such products.

I’m not aware of any limit of a 3a products/portfolios you can have. The tax authority may limit the number they allow you to do staggered withdrawals from at retirement age (and not have them taxed together). Worst case, they‘ll be telling you that you can’t withdraw five accounts over five years and have them taxed separately - and sum up your withdrawals to tax you at the higher progressive rate.

Since you can always consolidate multiple accounts into one (but not split up 3a accounts), it should be a nonissue during the savings/investment phase.

You can easily lose “everything“ of your investment in single stocks. But when investing in well-diversified global index funds across hundreds of stocks, such risk is basically inexistent. Don’t be surprised if you lose half of your investment or so, at least temporarily.

If anything. I’d be more concerned about the risk of fraud, e.g. someone withdrawing your account without you knowing.

Ciao dbu, do you suggest opening 5 Global 100? Or is better to have different options? Like Global 40 and so on…

Thanks very much. Super useful insights.

What do you mean by this? I mean how would it be possible and how can I prevent this? I never heard about it but it’s pretty scary!

Stock markets can and have gone to zero, for example, investors in russian stocks lost everything when the communist revolution happened.

For funds diversified through most of the world’s stock markets, I would expect a journey to zero to potentially happen in case of rare but very high impact disastrous events like regulatory changes (owning stocks becomes illegal), global collapse of the relevant IT systems (loss of all existing data) or fraud from the broker or the fund provider (they’d then provide false documents stating you own assets that don’t actually exist while they ran away with your cash). The chances for that are very, very, very low, but they exist. To note that in most of those scenarii, a bank account wouldn’t provide much more safety than brokered stocks and bonds.

More likely are huge dips where the markets go down significantly, but do not reach zero, and take significant time to recover, or never recover to their previous highs. There is no guarantee against that, it might happen. That is why it’s often said that we should only invest in stock money we can afford to loose. Our thesis is that stocks are shares of publicly listed companies that provide real goods and real services. As long as companies are expected to be profitable, stocks should be expected to have a real return. If an economy with a mature, diverse and well regulated stock market grows, then stocks related to that economy, taken as a whole, should also grow.

The same doesn’t hold for cryptos, and the same doesn’t hold for bonds, that are a contract between an entity and yourself. In that later case (bonds), they will provide a return as long as the companies/governments issuing them are solvent and willing to make the payments they have agreed upon by issuing the bonds.

So, there are risks. One should assess whether they are worth the prize, though. The prize is building wealth at a faster pace than pure savings allow (and pure savings are very, very slow). My take is that at the beginning of the journey, taking risks is very well worth it because loosing our invested assets is a return to point zero, of which we weren’t very far anyway. One may want to be more conservative and diversify across asset classes as our wealth grows. Note that even then, keeping a part of our assets invested in stocks provides diversification that is well worth the risk in my opinion.

I try to think in terms of what my means are, and how I am expecting to reach my goals.

My means are, in that order:

  • my mindset: always get back up one more time than you fall ;
  • my skills ;
  • my time ;
  • my social network (people who would help me in case of need) ;
  • my physical and financial assets (more agressive ones like stocks, more conservative ones like warm blankets, cans of food and waterproof tarps, a house would rank highly in that category);
  • societal support (social insurances and the like).

My financial assets don’t rank that high and, as such, they are mostly expendable. They help me to stay mentally healthy (by not feeling threatened and taking vacations), better my skills (by getting access to more expensive training), cultivate my social network (by increasing the number of ways I can help the people close to me) and increase my physical assets base. They’re a very effective fuel to steady my situation, help me achieve my goals and not worry about things, hence why I consider making them grow is worth the (calculated) risks.

My core basis of operational strength doesn’t come from there, though. I can loose a good chunk or all of my assets and still keep my mindset, my skills and my friends and family. By diversifying the kinds of assets I own, I can increase that operability and be confident that, whatever the situation, I will be able to use my time to achieve ownership of the things I really need. We are stronger and can weather more than we often think.

On that basis, I can assess what I am able to loose and still move on. That part of my assets can be invested in stocks. It can be, and currently is, all of my money.

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Hi there - I have finpension at 100% equity. They’re great. Everything is crashed out right now so a great time to slam some money in. Stay away from SwissLife. My husband did that when he first go here and it was a complete hassle to shut that down when he learned more about investing.

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Here is a migration strategy to open more performant 3 rd pillars.

  • You could keep your 3a account at BCV but lower contribution to 0 for this year.
  • Try to open a new 3a account to an online provider such as Viac or FinPension and contribute to the max you can for this year. E.g.: 7056- what you already contributed at BCV.
    Pick the strategy investment you feel confortable with it. Imagine losing 50-75% of this amount invested in stocks and total being red for few years.
  • in 2024, repeat the operation again by opening a new 3a account.
  • when you will feel comfortable with this new provider ask them to migrate your previous 3rd pillar hosted at BCV and pick a similar investment strategy.

In my case, I have migrated 2 previous 3rd pillar from BCGE and opened 3 new at Viac.
It feel great so far. I am contributing to the 3 new accounts every year since the migration in order to reach the same amount in my 5 3rd pillars.
After I expect to contribute 1 5th of 7056 in each of them.

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Interesting.

Have you been able to split your 3a money from 2 accounts into 3 accounts by migrating to a different provider?

Or did you just open a new third account starting at zero?

My advisor at BCGE advise me to open at least 2 second pillar.
He took the example of closing one to fund a real estate purchase while keeping the other one for retirement.
I migrate them as is. There was a flat fee of 100 chf by 3rd pillar.

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Hello everyone,
Just a question. Is it the right moment to take index funds from credit suisse? Im opening 5 portfolio on VIAC. I can chose 2 options of supply of funds (Swisscanto and Credit Suisse). Please check the file below. Any suggestions?

For new accounts I would choose Swisscanto as their EM fund doesn’t charge an extra fee and it’s unclear whether the conditions of CSIF funds will remain as they are long term due to the takeover by UBS. You could also choose one provider for 3 accounts and the other provider for the other 2 accounts if you’re not sure. It is very unlikely to make a significant difference either way.

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Thank you for your feedback jay.
Most probably I’ll use Swisscanto. Have a good day