3rd pilar - Limits to 15000 CHF

Update2 on this topic:
The social security and health comission of the Ständerat (council of states) discussed this in January and they voted against increasing the 3a limits to 15k.
This means, that the entire Ständerat will have to vote on this initiative.

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When will this happen?

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If we can go by the national council, it’s gonna be in their spring session (27. Feb - 17. Mar). I wouldn’t bet on it though. :wink:

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Spring session agenda will be available at the end of this week. If accepted, the commission (of the national council) will have two years to elaborate a project.

Yes and then both councils vote again on that.
Although I don’t see how you would need two years to increase 3a limit from 7k to 15k. :slight_smile: Because IMHO there isn’t much wriggle room how the decree should look.

So I just wrote a mail to one of the national assembly members co-signing the initiative (that, curiously, I have a number of linkedin acquaintances with), asking him what it’d need to drive those two motions/initiaties forward.

Let’s see how that goes.

EDIT: Replied within ten minutes, ha! 19.3702 / purchase into 3a is, supposedly, waiting on action of the Federal Council / Federal Department of Home Affairs. The FDP parliamentary group already decided to follow up and ask about this at the next parliamentary question time.

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Council of states will vote on 20.494 on March 8th. Chronologisches Programm Ständerat–Programme chronologique Conseil des Etats–Programma cronologico Consiglio degli Stati (parlament.ch)

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Aaaand it was declined: Höhere Einzahlungen in Säule 3a sind vom Tisch

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“Schon heute zahlten nur etwa zehn Prozent der Bevölkerung jährlich den Maximalbetrag von rund 6800 Franken ein.”

Typical politician argument. A number is thrown out without any context or critical thinking. How many people are aware of 3a and the possible tax savings? How many are aware but don’t want to use their expensive house bank solutions? How many are aware of low-cost solutions like VIAC and finpension?

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Still, I think the possibility to compensate years for which you didn’t contribute in the past is more important than increasing the maximal amount, because of the salary volatility people may have.

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What do you think, how high would this percentage be, if everybody was aware of the possible tax savings?

I agree. There was another proposal to be voted for this topic or I’m wrong ?

No you’re right about that. See my first post above, or the self-quote below:

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What a shame really.
15kchf will have been closer compare to the 20k gbp of the ISA account in UK.

Contributions to UK ISA are not deductible from taxable income. Money can be withdrawn from a UK ISA any time. They are not really comparable.

Overall I would say there are more opportunities in Switzerland to claim pension savings as deductions from taxable income

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It‘s actually pretty similiar to the US.

Well, it’s politicians after all that represent you in voting on such things, isn’t it?

And the context is somewhat obvious: raising the maximum contributable amount will only benefit a small part of the population. Namely high-earners optimising their taxes.

Since you mention critical thinking, the argument in favour of such bill is also questionable:

„Hess argumentierte in der Begründung des Vorstosses, der Staat habe ein Interesse daran, dass privat für das Alter gespart werde.“

Why? Because it will be saving on means-tested benefits and welfare for people that couldn’t otherwise sustain themselves from their own pension or wealth? Well, the way pillar 3a is currently set up, these people benefit the least from it. As long as it’s not mandatory, low earners will often be better off not making 3a contributions - they may rather enjoy their lives by consuming more before retirement - and relying on Ergänzungs- and Zusatzleistungen later.

The proposed bill doesn’t change that.

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Two years after the acceptation of a motion, the Federal Council should have made a proposition. If not, it must explain where we are in the progressing (each year). The object 23.006 regroups all objects. Page 53 of the report :

2020 M 19.3702 Autoriser les rachats dans le pilier 3a (Ettlin Erich)
La mise en œuvre de cette motion est complexe et suppose une coordination entre plusieurs départements et avec les autorités fiscales. Le projet pour la procédure de consultation est en cours d’élaboration. L’échéance est encore incertaine.

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Yes I’m aware that politicians are just a sample of the population, that doesn’t make it any better though;)

For the record I’m not arguing for higher tax cuts for the rich, and yes this 3a reform would mostly work towards that with its regressive tax behavior. I mean no wonder it benefits mostly the rich, it comes from the SVP and FDP.

What I take issue with is that these numbers are thrown around without context. “Only 10% use it” is a similar logic to “no one bikes in Zürich why should we paint new bike lanes”.

What should be done is price caps on 3a fund fees, and people should be given more control of how their 2nd pillar is invested. But the lobbyists would never allow for that to happen.

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I agree with you and I would add that such a static description does not take into account the fact that revenues sometimes highly vary through someone’s life, that is, people in lower percentiles of population by income can quickly move to higher percentiles and vice-versa e.g.

  • a university or HES student is now among the last 10 or 20% of the population by income, still can suddenly move up among the 50% of people in terms of income when entering the labor market
  • a person lowers its revenue by working less, when becoming parent. A few years later comes back to its old income

In my opinion we should think in a more “dynamically” way and allow people to contribute on the 3a as the 2nd by compensating for previous years (with limitations)

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