3a solution from Finpension

[Dr.PI]

@user137

Or am I overthinking it and let’s just drop it all into the existing Portfolio 1

No, make another 3a account/portfolio if you have a possibility.

@user137

let my “bonds” exposure be my 2nd pillar and RE exposure separate?

Yes.

[user137]

@Dr.PI

No, make another 3a account/portfolio if you have a possibility.

OK then, but back to Question Nr 1.
What do I fill it with? Or shall I just go Equity40 and be done with it?

[user137]

Thanks for this. Still analyzing…

What about minimum volatility + hedged funds? Should protect from the downside (and the upside) a little better, latter is a risk I’m happy to take.

RE I’m already full (invested in about triple the amount of my 3a NW in residential properties).

Bonds: do you expect any positive returns from bonds (vs just keeping the amount in cash) in the next 2-3 yrs?

[Dr.PI]

Some new interesting building blocks for your portfolio:

CSIF (CH) Equity Europe ex EMU ex CH
CSIF (CH) Equity Switzerland Total Market

[kawansky]

I have a question that may seem silly/simple but for which I have not found an answer.

First I’ll lay out the facts:

I am currently with Viac (completely satisfied), but I have the idea to transfer my 3a to finpension for the flexibility left and the choice of products that are possible.

(Now my question)
I opened my 3a account with Viac in 2020. If I transfer the full amount, will the amount be usable in 3 or 5 years? By that I mean, is it the date of the initial creation of the 3a account that counts, or is it the date of the transfer to the new institution? I know that it is possible to use the 3a account amount every 5 years to, for example, pay off a mortgage.
My goal would be to use this 3a account to pay off my mortgage which is due in 2026.

Thank you in advance for your help!

[jmp]

My understanding of “every 5 years” is that consecutive withdrawals from 3A must be separated by 5 years time intervals, independent of when the 3A was opened.
With that principle, you can withdraw in 2026 if you haven’t made any withdrawal since 2021, and then the following withdrawal should be in 2031 or later.

[kawansky]

@jmp

My understanding of “every 5 years” is that consecutive withdrawals from 3A must be separated by 5 years time intervals, independent of when the 3A was opened.

The subject is open to different interpretations, because what is considered a withdrawal from 3a? Is a transfer also considered as such as long as the entire amount “leaves” the original account?

[San_Francisco]

„Ein Vorbezug für Wohneigentum ist nur alle fünf Jahre möglich. Dabei ist es unerheblich, ob Sie mehrere 3a-Konti bei verschiedenen Vorsorgestiftungen besitzen. Wird die Fünf-Jahres-Frist verletzt, wird die Steuerbehörde die Bezüge in der Regel nachträglich zusammenrechnen, was zu einer höheren Steuerrechnung führt“

Auszahlung der Säule 3a für Wohneigentum (WEF-Vorbezug) – finpension

The five-year rule applies to withdrawals for home ownership, not transfers to other providers within the system.

[ma0]

Has anyone moved away from Finpension? I wonder if it costs something.
Edit:

So transfer after 2 years is free, and if you want to build a house, you transfer away from finpension first.

[johndoe1]

Any particular reason for leaving Finpension? I find them very competitive in terms of fees for big allocations to the stock market.

[Cortana]

Damn didn’t know that they will charge me 200 CHF for pledging it.

[ma0]

@Cortana

Damn didn’t know

It was one of my first posts on this thread

@johndoe1

Any particular reason for leaving Finpension?

I’m not even with them yet. I am just evaluating the first basic stuff (entry/exit costs, maintenance etc)

[San_Francisco]

@Cortana

Damn didn’t know that they will charge me 200 CHF for pledging it.

Of course. Doesn’t every 3a provider or pension fund?

(Well, could imagine some some small dedicated pension fund set up specifically by an employer doesn’t. But I‘d very surprised if any collective 2nd pillar or 3a foundation did not).

[Dr.PI]

Does anyone know if CSIF funds offered at finpension get withholding taxes on dividends from Canadian stocks reimbursed/waived?

I am looking in particular at CSIF (CH) Equity Canada Blue ZB (CH0213352104), but World ex CH is probably also concerned.

1. According to the double tax agreement with Canada, Swiss pension funds don’t pay Canadian withholding tax on dividends.

2. CSIF (CH) Equity Canada Blue ZB suspiciously overperforms it benchmark MSCI Canada (NR) by ca. 0.3-0.4% p.a.

3. I was trying to read the annual report for this fund. It mentions “Reclaimed Foreign witholding taxes”, but I don’t see gross and net dividends or something like that.

[rolandinho]

@Dr.PI

withholding taxes on dividends from Canadian stocks reimbursed/waived?

I am looking in particular at CSIF (CH) Equity Canada Blue ZB (CH0213352104)

The way I understood it when these ETF’s which don’t pay wht for special use cases were introduced, the ETF’s which don’t pay wht (or get it reimbursed) got the suffix “Pension Fund” in the name.
See the US and Japan Funds for example (CSIF (CH) Equity Japan Blue and CSIF (CH) I Equity Japan Blue - Pension Fund)
As that particular Canadian ETF doesn’t have the suffix, I’d say its wht are lost.

[Dr.PI]

@Dr.PI

Does anyone know if CSIF funds offered at finpension get withholding taxes on dividends from Canadian stocks reimbursed/waived?

I am looking in particular at CSIF (CH) Equity Canada Blue ZB (CH0213352104), but World ex CH is probably also concerned.

…

@Dr.PI

I was trying to read the annual report for this fund. It mentions “Reclaimed Foreign witholding taxes”, but I don’t see gross and net dividends or something like that.

Ok I looked again. The ratio
“Reclaimed foreign withholding taxes” / “Securities income, divided into: shares and other equity instruments … + Shares of other collective investments”
gives me for different shares classes and different periods values between 8% and 22%. So I think it’s reasonable to assume that this fund is not paying more than 15% withholding taxes on Canadian securities.

[Burningstone]

According to the double tax treaty → https://www.estv.admin.ch/dam/estv/de/dokumente/international/auslaendische-quellensteuern-pro-land/k/kanada.pdf.download.pdf/kanada.pdf

the fund should be able to reclaim 10% of the 25% withholding tax, leaving 15% non-reclaimable withholding tax, if I understood correctly.

[Dr.PI]

@Burningstone

the fund should be able to reclaim 10% of the 25% withholding tax, leaving 15% non-reclaimable withholding tax

Yes, but if it is recognize as a pension fund, withholding tax should be reduced to 0, see documents linked in

Canada based ETFs

And now I have a question concerning level 2 withholding tax on dividends distributed by Canadian funds or stocks. According to this summary the standard withholding tax of 25% is reduced to 15% for individuals. Does anyone has a first hand experience receiving dividends from CA securities? Is the withholding tax really 15%? Is it possible to reclaim these taxes as tax credit in CH (DA-1 Form?)? Many thanks to anyone sharing experience.

[Burningstone]

As far as I understood, the CSIF used by finpension are not pension funds, but institutional funds.
The pension fund shareclasses are only available for the CS Anlagestiftung funds.

At least that’s how it works at the Anlagestiftung I’m working at. One shareclass is for our Anlagestiftung fubds, which can be bought only by penaion funds and the other shareclasses are for vested benefits/3a accounts. This way the they can at least profit from the low TER and spread from institutional funds as retail investors.

I’m not sure whether vested benefits/3a providers would even be eligible for pension fund shareclasses.

[nabalzbhf]

Depends on countries, e.g. for US they have access to pension class: https://finpension.ch/app/uploads/factsheets/CH0030849712_fact-sheet_en.pdf?t=1661267598